Talk:Hay-on-Wye

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Micronations Low‑importance

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The "other-Languages-link" "Cymraeg" shows a wrong map. Is there another "Hay-on-Wye"?

I placed the dot; I got the map from multimap. It looks right to me... where was your Hay-on-Wye? Gareth Wyn 23:16, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Pardon so much – of course you are right. I missed to see that it is a map of Wales alone. -- 139.30.25.5 19:02, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Micronation or not?

Micronations? Not as such, I'd say. --edit summary by JzG

"Not as such"? Can we have something a bit more detailed please, so we can put an end to this endless cycle of reverting and reinstating without explanation? On the face of it Hay seems to fit with the Wikipedia concept of the micronation, not to be confused with the microstate, but maybe I'm missing something? Thanks, Flapdragon 16:35, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have seen this debate before, and while I have no view on whether Hay-on-Wye fits the definition, I do recall that many of the people arguing against whatever-it-was-that-time were applying their own definition of micronation (something like "very small country") rather than the definition in Wikipedia. That would be an argument nobody can win, so let's have a debate based only on Wikipedia's definition... Please... Notinasnaid 09:48, 5 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The town isn't, but Richard Booth's castle certainly is. Had he not founded his "Kingdom" the town would not be the tourist attraction it is today. --Gene_poole 12:02, 5 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The difference is clearly one of intent. A micronation, per WP, is formed with serious legal, political, or philosophical intentions, whereas Booth's "declaration" was a tongue-in-cheek marketing stunt. At no time did he or anyone else believe that they were actually declaring independence from the UK. Therefore, Hay-on-Wye is/was not a micronation. 12.233.146.130 (talk) 02:12, 6 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's come up again. (1) Is it a micronation and (2) is it a secessionist town? Johnrcrellin thinks it's both, I'm certain it isn't secessionist and fairly certain it's not a micronation. However, having looked at the WP page on Micronations, it clearly meets the definition we have on that page. The heavily-patrolled List of micronations has cut it from the list, but that was based on notability rather than classification (it had been on the list for years prior to that). So it's a Micronation, IMO, for WP's purposes.

Regarding secession. Nothing in the article, or any sources I've seen, indicates it's actually a secessionist town. Sure, the category says "whether seriously or otherwise", but it also says "towns and cities", and Richard Booth is just an individual. Compare to the Conch Republic, which was similarly tongue-in-cheek, but which actually involved the City Council and the Mayor. Likewise Kinney, Free Borough of Llanrwst, Rough and Ready, Principality of Seborga & Winneconne all made some real attempts, in jest or otherwise, to secede, either involving duly elected bodies or votes by the entire town. I'd question whether Freetown Christiania should be there. Bromley86 (talk) 20:37, 28 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

But the Wikipedia page for Secessionist town practically said it was a synonym for Micronation (or so I thought) when I read it. In any case I live in Hay on Wye and can tell you from local experience that the whole thing - although clearly tongue in cheek - is not "just Richard Booth" at all. He started it but many locals espouse the cause. (Recent example being bookshops attempting to declare the town a Kindle-free zone). Johnrcrellin (talk) 15:08, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The key point is "town". We'd need a reliable source that said a significant portion, likely though a well-attended meeting that led to some effect, or through an official council, had made some move (in jest or otherwise) in that direction. Otherwise the first sentence on that page isn't satisfied ("Towns and cities which have proclaimed themselves independent or monarchies/principalities . . ."). Such a source may well exist. Also, the page doesn't say they're synonyms. It says that all the secessionist places named there are often referred to as micronations, which is fair. That doesn't mean the reverse is true; for example, the Grand Duchy of Avram is a micronation, but is not secessionist. Bromley86 (talk) 15:48, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Classic logical error on my part... I don't know myself on the possible sources and do know who to ask so will try to remember to. Johnrcrellin (talk) 17:18, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Book trade

So here's the important question, the one I sought an answer to: how and when did this place start to become such a vast accumulation of used book stores? Did Booth start it, or...? --Orange Mike 02:13, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Timbuktu

According to the Timbuktu page, Hay-on-Wye is twinned with it. --RaphaelBriand (talk) 13:43, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Links

"Not the purpose of Wikipedia, it's an Encyclopedia not a 'What's on' site." Arguable - providing the link does not make Wikipedia a What's on site. It is a highly relevant and as far as I am aware non-commercial link useful to anyone reading about Hay at WP

Johnrcrellin (talk) 05:52, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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Historic location?

I always thought Hay was in a modern English county [just saw it on a list of "Things to do in Wales"], obviously when the Welsh counties were annexed it was in England, but with the Hay Castle, see https://www.nationaltrail.co.uk/offas-dyke-path/plan, being East of Offa's Dyke it would _seem_ historically it was not on the Brecknockshire side of the Dyke. Indeed it was part of the Marches and when Henry VIII reiterated the annexation with the Law in Wales Act, it was combined with other Marcher territories to become a new county of his English Realm. The "in the historic county of" bit might be misleading (or not), it suggests to me that this is an ancient county and that the border has always been static? Is that the case? Just curious really - the number of fortified buildings in the area would suggest the border might have moved about quite a bit, but the article here doesn't mention anything like that, so ...? Seems like there might be some interesting past that's not included in the article at present? Pbhj (talk) 16:15, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sir Terry Pratchett

I question the inclusion of Terry Pratchett in the list-section of Notable people (by implication those born or resident there). A check of his wiki article shows the only connection the Buckinghamshire-then-Wiltshire based writer had with this town is that his mother was from there, but nothing to support his ever living there. There is no citation against his listing. For this reason I am removing him from the list until someone can produce evidence of personal involvement in the town.Cloptonson (talk) 19:27, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]