Talk:Ape

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 3 January 2022 and 11 March 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): CastanonIbarra (article contribs).

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On 2 August 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to hominoidea. The result of the discussion was not moved.

MUCH too specialist and dense opening paragraph

Ape is an essential concept that everyone needs to grasp. It goes to the heart of understanding ourselves.

That opening paragraph is an ultra-dense, self-indulgent jargon-fest. Long sentences with lots of sub-clauses and twists and turns. Buckets of impossibly technical vocabulary that is unexplained and unguessable. Etc Etc. This article is impenetrable from the very first sentence. I came here to understand how apes relate to monkeys in the evolutionary tree... within less than a minute I was utterly fenced in and log jammed. It needs work. Wiki articles are supposed to be for non-specialist, curious Apes (and possibly monkeys). Bob as in Robert (talk) 20:41, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Bob as in Robert: I entirely agree with you. I think the issue is that, as explained in the "Name and terminology" section, in common usage ape has at least three meanings. In scientific use, it has had two (i.e. excluding or including humans). This, plus past edit-warring over trying to say that meanings other than ape = Hominoidea are wrong, has made it difficult to write clearly and accurately while satisfying all factions. I think I would prefer a short article at "Ape" explaining the history and use of the term with a clearer and more precise article at "Hominoidea". Peter coxhead (talk) 06:19, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article is long, and tbh most people won't read it all, they just want a brief, solid summary. That's all I wanted to know. At the post-graduate level, this topic (like most topics) is probably a savage tug-of-war between different cliques. But the intro needs to be something strong and simple at the high-school level. The hair-splitting academics should fight their wars in the lower paragraphs. 5.173.222.16 (talk) 20:20, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are several different meanings (past and present) which the word can have, and the scientifically most-accepted subgroupings (cladistic trees) have changed a number of times since the 1950s, so I'm not sure how simplistic the lead section should be. But it might be good for it to focus a little more on what apes have in common, as opposed to (other) monkeys. Most of the turmoil on this article talk page is caused by people who are poorly informed and/or have an ideological axe to grind. Very little is caused by legitimate scientific controversies (though sometimes we discuss strictly "cladistic" terminology vs. "grade" terminology). Moving the bulk of the article to Hominoidea might run into problems with WP:COMMONNAME.... -- AnonMoos (talk) 06:49, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2 August 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. WP:SNOW UtherSRG (talk) 12:34, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ape → hominoidea - Ape is ambiguous. It is used with various different meanings. Hominoidea is clearer. Fish900 (talk) 17:53, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Per the previous similar request. - UtherSRG (talk) 19:51, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Primates and WikiProject Mammals have been notified of this discussion. UtherSRG (talk) 19:51, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. SilverLocust 💬 07:56, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Rlendog (talk) 18:25, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose there's no need to change it. Waqar💬 19:07, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and speedy close Per WP:COMMONNAME. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 11:43, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, speedy close, snowy day, etc. Randy Kryn (talk) 12:31, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 26 August 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

in the final paragraph of the introduction, the page mentions "four species of chimpanzee" this should be corrected to say "four subspecies of chimpanzee" (note that the sentence refers to bonobos as a separate group) Wrongperson58 (talk) 14:18, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done UtherSRG (talk) 15:21, 26 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rewording....

Under Behavior -

"...chimpanzees live in larger troops with bonobos exhibiting promiscuous sexual behaviour..."

Hubba, hubba! Is there another way to word this? .^_^.

Thank you, Wordreader (talk) 17:32, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]