Talk:Singing Revolution

Why just Estonia?

I think the last part should include Lithuania and Latvia as well. Why just Estonia? Ubermonkey 20:08, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I changed that part a little to indicate that the other Baltic states' independence started the collapse of USSR. But the sentence about gaining independence without bloodshed is only about Estonia, since it was a result of the revolution, which only happened in Estonia (and I think some blood was shed in Vilnius). PeepP 20:24, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

I believe that this bloodshed was after declaration of independence. Maybe this article needs to be splited in three parts - one for each country -- Xil - talk 22:38, 12 November 2005

(UTC)

There was bloodshed in Vilnius on January 13, 1991, when Soviet military attacked television centre as they were trying to establish a hardline communist puppet government (so-called National Salvation Front led by M.Burakevicius). 14 people died as a consequence. Only a week later, Soviet OMON forces (special militia) assaulted Latvian Interior ministery buildings in Riga, at least 4 people were killed. Constanz 09:10, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Somone realy should do something with this article (someone who is old enough to remember and tell diference between singing revulution national aweaking and barricades... or to assure that it is synonims for same thing) - it clearly isn`t only estonian revulution, they weren`t only ones who singed and it probably didn`t even start in 1988 -- Xil - talk 02:20, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

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Does anyone else think the wiki-links to "history" and "song" are just a little bit too much? I think both concepts are pretty much universally understood. ekedolphin 00:38, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

Be bold and remove the unnecessary wikilinks, I don't think a lot of people would object. PeepP 12:13, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

ERR0R

Congress of Estonia (Eesti Kongress) is not Estonian Parliament (Riigikogu). According to this Estonian article http://et.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eesti_Kongress Congress of Estonia was alternative (to the Estonian Supreme Soviet) parliament of the country near the end of the Soviet period. When the anti-Gorbachev coup d'etat failed to subdue the democrats across USSR, on 20 august of 1991 the leadership of the Congress, the Comitte of Estonia agreed to join together with the Supreme Soviet (see here http://et.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eesti_Komitee) in show of national unity, declaring Estonia independent, drafting the constitution and finally calling to election of the Riigikogu, the real parliament of the country replacing both the Supreme Soviet and the Congress

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—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bete (talk • contribs) 20:32, 24 January 2007 (UTC).

moved to talk

Sorry,but Singing Revolution began in Estonia 1987 june.When 3 musicians started in"Raekoja plats"(City Hall Square) sing forbidden songs.But that theme is censored in Estonia 19 years. Volvofriik 20:28, 26 May 2006

Latvia? Lithuania?

Can somebody explain why here is section about Latvia and Lithuania? "Singing Revolution" is unified name to events of just few years, most involved singing in different events (song festivals), in Estonia. It was mainly about courage of people to sing again songs which were forbidden. This awakening, rising of self-esteem, played one (quite major) part of other events that Estonia got, alongside Latvia and Lithuania, independece again. There was many other (political) events/acts what Baltic states did together, but these can't be counted as part of "Singing Revolution". Can somebody point out any event which was outside Estonia which we can include here? (Baltic Way included singing, but this event wasn't the main part of it) It seems now that article tries to define all events in Baltics, in these years, as Singing Revolution, but that is quite a lot of extending the meaning of it, geographically and by importance. --TarmoK 22:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with TarmoK. "Singing Revolution" is also in my history book described as events that happened in Estonia. I'll try to find the pictures, but they are quite hard to get..Most are copyrighted.

Truth About the Recent History of Estonia

By Tann Weinberg

It all began on June 6, 1987, on the Tallinn City Hall Square, completely by chance, when the official part of the Old City Festival ended, and people didn't feel like going home yet. All of them – single people and young couples, some older people among them -- searched for activity for themselves. And they found it, when under the City Hall bell, at first two, later one more musician, started to play. These songs were especially popular, for singing of which, the militia could carry away. After some five minutes, the City Hall arcade was full of people. And more people were coming.

Finally, one nineteen year old girl, named Elfa, proposed to people to make a tour in the Old City. And so all the people, hand in hand, started to wander through the Old City. In different interesting courtyards and other places, they stopped. They made a pause in singing, and listened a short story about that place from a guide, who was among them, and they went ahead then. It continued so until four o'clock in the morning. In the end, when they all were back at the City Hall, they did agree that in the next evening, they would meet again at the same place. Also, all were asked to take their friends, relatives and other people who they know, with them. And this is what they did.

In the next evening, the City Hall arcade couldn't accommodate all the people any more. Some among the people tried to go to the stage, which was there for performances, and started to trample the rhythm there. After that, the vacation parks directress Rita Mägar (peace be with her) came there, she was also the chairwoman of the Old City Festival Organisation Committee. She asked to stop breaking the stage. She also said, that we perturb the sleep of the locals, and made a proposal that we could go to the Singing Square, she promised to call there, so that the lighting would be on. Of course we did happily agree. We couldn't disturb there anyone, and that place is there for singing. Initiated by Elfa again, led by us with the musical instruments, the procession started to silently move from the City Hall Square. And then again by singing.

At that, the militia appeared. The militia started to pick the underage ones from the procession. It was already later than twelve o'clock. We took all the youngsters under our protection. Some said that she is the elder sister, other said that he is a brother, other said that he/she is the mother or father. No one was carried away. But for militia, the things became more severe. The cars hurried there. And an intensive filming and photographing started. Probably most of these who were in that procession, were recorded. The length of the procession was such that it did extend from the City Hall Square to the Viru Gates. It was a nice to see, how the Estonians (together with a few Russians) marched so harmoniously through the city. And as promised, there was a nice lighting on the Singing Square, and soon also 6 militia cars appeared on the hill opposite to the Singing Arc, from which they continuously photographed, and apparently also filmed the people. We then quickly decided among ourselves, that we would not let anyone to provoke us, would behave composedly, and when leaving, will not leave any rubbish behind us – so that no one could reproach us anything. And all of us strictly obeyed these rules. In the next evenings, people came again to the Singing Square, after the end of the official part of the Old City Festival. And every next evening, there were more people. We also used to count people every evening. The results are written in the diaries.

In the fourth evening, there already were some more courageous ones among us. One girl carried a blue-black-white flag in the bosom. Five or six Punkers, who were among us, saw that, and not much time did pa*s before they had disentangled the flag cords of the masts on the substation roof, and soon the flag flowed at full mast. At first they wanted to hoist the flag to the pole of the flame tower, but Korsten forbid it. The Punkers were very happily on guard under the flag. This of course caused a high officer to arrive from a car which did stand at some distance, who ordered to take off the flag. Through some miracle everything resolved peacefully, the flag flied at the mast until morning, and the officer leaved. Later became clear, that the officer was from KGB. Rita Mägar, who joined us that evening, and apparently was sent to check the behavior of the people, just sighed that this would be her last working day. Fortunately it wasn't. In the next evening, the flag cords were disappeared from the masts. But this was not a big problem, the boys went quickly to Kadriorg, and were soon back with new cords, and a young man named Jaak was like a squirrel at the top of the mast. The cords were fastened and the flag flied again. Such was the week before Rodeo.

In the Supreme Soviet, they constantly complained about all these events. Some official even came to reprimand us. The people answered with a roaring song “We are the Forest Brothers” (the Forest Brothers were the partisans who fought the Soviet occupation forces). The official gave up. And finally, when it was already evident that nothing can be done – the people were just too rebellious – the band called Rodeo was sent to the Singing Square, and the leaders turned everything to their own benefit, as if they were generous, and sent us a band. After the Rodeo performance, the people didn't leave at all, but the joy and the celebration continued until morning. It was also obviously better to sing the known songs. Principally, it could been posed that the spontaneous activities were crushed, and the Communist Party fat bosses were honorable again. But they didn't consider that in the same evening, a half an hour interview with the description of all the events, was given to a Finnish radio station. By the latest evidence, this interview is st**l present in the archive. For certain reasons, I cannot reveal the name of that radio station. I hope that I will succeed to obtain these recordings, before someone would cover them (as these are evidently about a censored history). The other people in Estonia couldn't see the blue-black-white flags, which were present in the procession, before the year 1988. After it appeared once at the flag pole of the City Hall, and the militia took it off, accompanied by the jeers of the people. For hoisting that flag, and for a hand tie with a red question mark, I was even once arrested in Pagari (the former building of the KGB in Pagari street). Fortunately only for one night, and without any bigger violence. Tre trump which we had then, was continuous communication with the foreign press, and KGB knew it. The following people testify these events: Pelle-Rein Popovitš, Arne Meensalu alias Korsten,Tanel Vainumäe(Musicans), Laine Vainumäe, Tiiu Vainumäe, Jaan Roop, Tiina Paidra, certainly Jüri Liim, who was the anchorman in the live broadcast in 1994, where 4 hour interview about these events was given, and certainly also many other people who were present, who I hope to find by the published calls.

PS! In the next year -- in the year 1988 – the initiated tradition continued already in the official form. The people were thankful to the leaders, and the latter ones were satisfied with themselves. But unfortunately the authorities and the historians have written only about that last form of the events, without the events which preceded them. But without these preceding events, the several years long tradition could not been initiated. Certainly, many people remember the sentence which appeared in the press, that before these official events, there was some kind of Punks song festival. The same disparaging remark was publicly made during the events by the singer in the band Rodeo, Mart Mikk. But by that he also proved that something really happened before the official events. October 16, 2006 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.196.42.6 (talk • contribs) 20:17, 16 October 2006

Yes, all baltic states

Singing was form of resistance in all three countries, like it or not, my history book states: "Again the forrbiden red-white-red flag was used openly and latvian songs were sung, that is the reason why it, same as in Lithuania and Estonia, was named the singing revolution" -- Xil/talk 17:02, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

True. Digwuren 02:22, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Please provide references that the period is called "singing revolution" in latvia and lithuania. Otherwise the two parts will be deleted as original essay. `'Míkka 01:08, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

References provided. Martintg 01:18, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Soviet-era censors

Koidula's non-censorship was not miraculous, but a calculated act of altering Estonian history by the Soviets. Specifically, Soviets reframed Koidula's desire for independence as desire for independence from Baltic Germans, and depicted that as cardinally different from the desire of independence from Soviet Union. Digwuren 02:22, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Estonia was kicked out of soviet union!?

Theres the matter of independence regained. RJ CG is trying to claim that singing revolution had nothing to do with regaining independence... Also. the after is a bit... erm.. Wrong? Estonia became independent in August, soviet union transformed into CIS in the end of the year...--Alexia Death the Grey 16:18, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

copyrighted text and failed Good Article review

I deleted a big chunk of text from this article today because it was pretty clearly copy-and-pasted from this site.

However, even if the text had all been copyright-free, I would still have quick-failed this article because it lacks sufficient references. Statements like

Both of these projects planned by Moscow would lead to the destruction of Latvia's landscapes, and cultural and historical wealth.

and

The congress of the Writers' Union stirred up the public masses and provided an additional stimulus for the general process of national revival.

and

Perhaps more than any other event, Bloody Sunday in Vilnius won Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia the world's sympathy and support.

all need some sort of reliable source that indicates from the where the underlying factual material has been drawn (precisely so that we can avoid the sort of copyrighted text that was in the article before). Keep in mind that I'm just cherry picking a few instances where this is the case; many, many such statements need references here. Without those sorts of references, the article can't be a Good Article. If you have any questions, please contact me on my talk page. Cheers! Esrever 22:43, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Um What?

The article is Singing Revolution not Latvia getting free from Soviet Union, the whole Latvian section is about their near history not singing revolution. The singing revolution was in Estonia where about 350 000 estonians sang one song. Yes there were some small singings in Latvia but nothing in Lithuania, in Latvia there were maybe about 10 000-20 000 people singing but the revolution was in Estonia, about 90 %. There is so little information about Estonian singing revolution and so many text about "Latvian singing revolution" that doesn't speak of singing at all, only Latvian history 1988-1992. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.196.77.150 (talk) 20:09, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, I can look up the sources later but what happened, the Singing revolution spread from Estonia to Latvia and Lithuania during the 10th Gaudeamus song festival in Vilnius in July 1-3, 1998, where the Estonian students just marched in carrying the Estonian national flags. It was right after the June 10-11 mass night-singings at Tallinn Song Festival Grounds where practically the first time Estonian flags were brought out from hiding places...and the term Singing revolution was first used to describe the mass night -singings by Heinz Valk

After the Estonians brought their flags to Vilnius, the second day at the Gaudeamus song festival the national flags of Lithuania and Latvia started to appear. Another demonstration was held- funeral of Communism. Also, the Gaudeamus song festival in Vilnius ended with 3 students holding each the national flags of Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania marching in front of the Communist party leaders lodge and confronting them. The guys just took off from their seats... There were also coupler of students arrested by the KGB but nothing was done, they were released as things, the waving with the national flags had took massive form -the Singing revolution had started in all Baltic countries.

I don't know if Lithuanians ever did any revolutionary singing afterwards. But the core of what changed everything and that can be called the Singing Revolution in all 3 Baltic countries was the 10th Gaudeamus, - the Baltic Students Song and Dance Festival in July 1-3, 1998 in Vilnius, Lithuania.--Termer (talk) 08:46, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Should the sentence "Lithuania was the first of the Baltic States where the movement now known as the Singing Revolution appeared." be removed then? The term was first used in Estonia, it is even said so in the article. H2ppyme (talk) 12:04, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

The reference provided , the book by Richard Krikus, mentions singing revolution in following context. The three Baltic countries , through their "singing revolution," with Lithuania taking the lead in 1990, helped contribute to the demise of communism in the USSR's "inner-empire". I dn't know if Lithuania took the lead but the year mentioned by the ref is clearly 2 years later than the singing revolution that started in Estonia. therefore the section needs to be rephrased. Hope that any editors that are exactly aware of what and how after the Gaudeamus song festival the singing revolution spread in Lithuania could take care of it. In case not, it's going to be fixed anyway since the ref has been misused.--Termer (talk) 05:50, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Seriously, how long will this nonsense last? "Singing revolution" is a term coined to the events that led to the independence of Estonia, and Estonia alone. Whatever events led to the independence of Latvia and Lithuania are named differently. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.50.204.136 (talk) 15:28, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Opening Paragraph

I have substantially rewritten the first paragraph, a summary of the lead-up to the Singing Revolution. It was not as well-translated as the rest of the information and as an introduction it was rather too partisan for the NPOV perspective Wikipedia prefers. However I tried not to downplay the mendacity of the Soviet Union, rather I tried to upgrade long-term factors (access to the West, the release of pressure on dissidents after the fall of Andropov and Chernenko and the accession of Gorbachev) and I put some things into better English phraseology rather than the pidgin in which it was written. Hope it doesn't offend too many people and I took care not to completely erase any personal sentiments expressed therein. I am not a Balt myself but have studied the process of transition from the perspective of the Baltic States as a whole and therefore cannot really say whether the term Singing Revolution applies to Estonia only or to all three countries. I would have thought, though, that the importance of folk music and song festivals to Latvia in particular and Lithuania in all probability suggests that they did have "Singing Revolutions" of their own. Perhaps someone from these two countries could be found to comment on it? Lstanley1979 (talk) 17:40, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I wrote the Background section, I hoped someone will eventualy polish it up and I'm not going to be offended if you change it. BTW I allready commented on it here. Latvians call this period (at least the part of it until January 1991) singing revolution or the third awakening, singing is important part of Latvian culture and was form of protest long before USSR started to collapse. The fact that Estonians evidently don't know anything about Latvia is no reason to remove facts from the article ~~Xil...sist! 22:47, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

In Lithuania singing was important, but it is not know as "singing revolution" (the first time I heard it was in English and referred to Estonia). I guess most popular term in Lithuania is Sąjūdis - the name of the movement & organization. Renata (talk) 04:33, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Endgames of totalitarian systems

I am tempted to classify Carnation Revolution together with such as Revolutions of 1989, Singing Revolution and others as Category:Endgames of totalitarian systems, albeit perhaps with a slightly less ambitious title. Thoughts? Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 20:14, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I think the current Category:Nonviolent revolutions would be just fine.--Termer (talk) 20:25, 6 November 2008 (UTC)