Talk:Cole Turner (Charmed)

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On 9 October 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from Cole Turner to Cole Turner (Charmed). The result of the discussion was moved.

Untitled

The question at hand is whether or not an article on Cole Turner, a character in the television show “Charmed,” is of encyclopedic material. Art is clearly worthy of inclusion in any encyclopedia. Film as well as New Media Art, including digital video projections of what is essentially a short film, falls under the category of art. The question is really whether or not Television is art, specifically this television show. Like pornography, one can easily differentiate between art and what is clearly not an attempt at the quest for truth. Defining art has always been something of a difficulty. What I would say, in an attempt to prove that “Charmed” is worthy of scholarly attention, although certainly a specific scholar who was researching something titled “Pop Culture and Mythology,” or “Reinterpretations of Fairytales and Lore in Media” would find such an article particularly beneficial, is that “Charmed” makes a worthy attempt at reinterpreting such folktale icons as witches and demons, as well as a good host of mythological creatures, including nymphs, succubae, and banshees, for a modern audience. This encourages the audience to further pursue research on such topics, while thinking about the pycology of these creatures, and questioning the issues of good and evil that humanity encompasses. The medium of television should not limit the scholarly value of the writers, directors, and actors involved with the show. Their artistic vision and understanding of what truly reaches people, specifically the group of people that they feel most strongly need influence, should be valued. The character of Cole Turner deals with conflicts vital to the human experience, specifically light and darkness, as well as the choice between “what is right” and “what will make me feel good right now.” These questions and choices are highly relevant to American culture, most so to the target audience of teenagers and twenty-something’s who are in the process of examining morality and their own understanding of themselves.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.171.22.116 (talk) 04:51, 7 February 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Time Traveler

Just noticed the note about how Cole never time travelled. Technically I believe he did... he went back to try to kill/kidnap Melinda Warren as a baby, in the episode All Halliwell's Eve. I'm not sure that one jump (that we was probably sent by somebody else, since I don't think he can under his own power) technically makes him a Time Traveler for purpose of the category, but just wanted to correct that. --Maelwys 12:56, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think those two Grimlocks in All Halliwell's Eve sent Cole back,because they open up the time portal for the Charmed Ones.Then, you see that Cole was in that time with the Charmed Ones too.Very confusing.—Preceding unsigned comment added by JakeTheBlake (talk • contribs) 22:02, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And very wrong. The Grimlocks don't open the portal for the sisters, they don't have nearly enough power to do so. The Elders sent them back and the Triad sent Cole back. Thus Cole is not technically a time traveller as it was not under his own power. And yes I am well aware these comments were made ages ago, I just thought I'd mention now for future references. Tavy08 (talk) 03:34, 18 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Spoiler tag?

Is it really necessary to have a spoiler tag in this article? The series is over with (except in countries that are behind the US), and so it seems that at least in the english 'pedia, such a tag is no longer necessary. Or am I misunderstanding it's usage? ···Q Huntster ^{(T) • @ • (C)} 22:52, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In reference to "cole staying dead" after the avatar episode, he did come back in the 7 year witch. As far as the grimlocks openeing a portal, this is incorrecet. The elders opened the portal to send the charmed ones back to save their line. Cole traveled on his own, with the help of magic he took out of a pouch. You see this when he returns home. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.221.163.133 (talk) 02:51, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not confusing at all and the Grimelocks didnt open the portal for the charmed ones the elders did so they could save Melinda as a baby so they didnt all turn evil..And Cole had maic it fuckin shows you at the end of that episode—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.164.198.139 (talk) 06:20, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No Spoiler tag is needed. The article is clearly enough divided into sections so that the reader can skip past the plot section to avoid spoilers if they so wish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.89.155.111 (talk) 15:02, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Powers List

Did Cole actually ever become an Avatar? Because i thought he only nearly did. I cant remember him ever actually having or using Avatar powers. July10 2006—Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.194.87.1 (talk) 11:23, 10 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes he did become an avatar and then rewrote reality to his unfortunate end, he was vanquished in the same episode (that time he stayed dead).—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.170.93.59 (talk) 01:18, 10 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I was wondering how Cole shows his ability to control time before join avator? Is it power to freeze objects much like Piper did or Time control? it's 2 different powers.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.64.218.57 (talk) 13:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Revision as of 20

34, 1 July 2008, restored to record in this work paper 9 July 2009:

(1) [Cut to the living room. Cole, Kurzon and Little Phoebe are there. Little Phoebe is screaming and then faints on the couch. Kurzon throws an energy ball at Little Phoebe.]
Cole: No! (Cole blocks little Phoebe's body and the energy ball hits him. Kurzon looks surprised.) Leave the girl alone!
Kurzon: Belthazor? I thought you were dead.
Cole: He is! (A dagger materialises in Cole's hand and he throws it at Kurzon. Kurzon pulls it out of his body.)
Kurzon: It'll take more than that to stop me.
Cole: Very well. (Cole creates and throws a demonic fireball at Kurzon, knocking him down. Kurzon gets back up.)
Kurzon: The Source!
[Piper, Phoebe, Paige and Leo run down the stairs. Kurzon shimmers out...]
(2) Piper's spirit: What are you exactly? Ghost, demon, poltergeist, nightmare?
Cole: None of the above. We're caught in a cosmic void…between Life and Death.
Piper's spirit: I’m stuck with you?"
Cole: No. If you play your cards right, you can get out of this nasty limbo. I’m the one who’s here for all eternity...
and:
Cole: I’m cursed to live in eternity, without love, for what I’ve done, and I accept that. But I don't want Phoebe to be cursed, too. She needs love. She deserves it. But she's not going to keep looking for it unless you give her a reason to. Now, you and Leo are that reason...

- —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mtq (talk • contribs) 20:34, 1 July 2008, section/answer restored with blockquoted recovery (FrankB 14:56, 9 January 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Belthazor should be merged here.

It is the same character, and I can't see how it has enough information to have page of its own. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 23:12, 20 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reply to above suggestion: Belthazor and Cole should not be merged into one article, they were two different characters. Belthazor was a Demon, pure and simple. Cole was much more than that. He had a soul, he had the ability to love to a great extent, and he was not destroyed when Belthazor was vanquished. They were two separate entities trapped in the same body. And the biggest point behind my arguement- Belthazor was a demon and hence inherently evil- cole was a great man with a strong heart. 27 June 2008- Troy Rison —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.224.117.238 (talk) 05:02, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

section begun originally May 2008 restored 9 Jan 2009: reconstruction of this improper deletion:

(Revision diff as of 05:03, 27 June 2008)—Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabartus (talk • contribs) 14:56, 9 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Seer and "into the void".

I have one question about the sentence When the Seer says the Source's power went "into the void", she was referring to the "void" where Cole's demon half used to be. Either in that episode or a previous episode (been watching the series again and see if I can dig up which it is), she mentions as a Seer she cannot lie. However, that doesn't stop her from bending the truth. Though I like the take on "Cole's Void", the way she phrased the response was more in the form of a question. I think this is her way of not answering the question out right that it went into Cole, but make it sound like it was gone, making the sisters think they had won. StarDal (talk) 14:29, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that the episode in which the "first" Source is killed is also her introduction as well - Charmed and Dangerous (4x13). It would be that episode that she says she can't lie. Will confirm. StarDal (talk) 14:43, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, it does sound like she is being evasive. Into the void was just her way of not telling Cole he had the powers, as she did mean the void were his demonic half used to be. Phrasing it like a question may have been her way of getting past her "cannot lie" characteristic. I also agree with your second statement as well, this is the first time she really becomes a recurring character for the series. Tavy08 (talk) 14:51, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal Cole Turner with Belthazor

refactored from below, after restoring links as noted above.: ALSO: redated Merge tags to 9 July 2009 for the sake of proper process.

Just seen these... date unknown, improperly hung, since no link to this or any section introducing the topic and the tags (Lazy paperhangers! YUCK!!!) have no embedded rationale or reasoned arguments for the proposal. Tags removed on that basis. If you hung them, try reading the help before using merger tags again. // FrankB 14:17, 9 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Continued New discussion on the merger

Neutral leaning keep--at least until I have time to peruse both articles better, but my gut feel is to leave well enough alone as the demon's interactions (TRIAD, SOURCE, DEMONIC WORLD in general) is outside the behaviours conducted by Cole Turner (Assistant District Attorney, Phoebe's love interest, intercessor with police authorities) so that treatment as two characters is warranted on the grounds of easiest exposition of the character(z).
- Moreover, truncation by merger just creates an uninformative redirect and would create double redirects in various links and templates.
- Lastly, a couple of short articles are superior and far easier to edit and maintain than one large confusing one trying to cover too many aspects. While the two will necessarily have cross-references mentions to some matters in the other, that should aid ease of writing and help keep the writing from being "In-universe" in style, as is criticized by such a tag on one of these currently. // FrankB 15:12, 9 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Cole Turner (Charmed)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

Press [show] to view →

NOTE: When I posted a reply to:

<snip> Belthazor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belthazor should be merged here. It is the same character, and I can't see how it has enough information to have page of its own. TheBlazikenMaster http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:TheBlazikenMaster (talk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:TheBlazikenMaster) 23:12, 20 May 2008 (UTC)) <snip>[reply]

It unintentionally wiped out all of the following (including most of my reply posting): <snip> Belthazor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belthazor should be merged here. It is the same character, and I can't see how it has enough information to have page of its own. TheBlazikenMaster http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:TheBlazikenMaster (talk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:TheBlazikenMaster) 23:12, 20 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reply to above suggestion: Belthazor and Cole should not be merged into one article, they were two different characters. Belthazor was a Demon, pure and simple. Cole was much more than that. He had a soul, he had the ability to love to a great extent, and he was not destroyed when Belthazor was vanquished. They were two separate entities trapped in the same body. And the biggest point behind my arguement- Belthazor was a demon and hence inherently evil- cole was a great man with a strong heart. 27 June 2008- Troy Rison —Preceding unsigned http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures comment added by 4.224.117.238 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/4.224.117.238 (talk http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:4.224.117.238) 05:02, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Charmed - Cole Turner story arc episodes:

Two beings born together and joined together: Cole Turner (human) / Belthazor (demon):

Charmed - Season 3:

The Honeymoon's Over

Magic Hour

Once Upon A Time

All Halliwell's Eve

Sight Unseen

Primrose Empath

Power Outage

Sleuthing With The Enemy

Coyote Piper (Phoebe sees a vision of Cole's human father being killed by Cole's demon mother)

Bride And Gloom

The Good, The Bad, And The Cursed

Just Harried

Death Takes A Halliwell

The Demon Who Came In From The Cold

Exit Strategy

Look Who's Barking

All Hell Breaks Loose

Charmed - Season 4:

Charmed Again

Hell Hath No Fury

Enter The Demon

Brain Drain

Black As Cole

Cole Turner (human) / Magical void inside him where Belthazor had existed [Belthazor the demon is dead (1), and only Cole the human exists (as stated in Charmed scripts from this point on, up until when the human Cole is possessed by the Source Of All Evil)] :

Muse To My Ears

A Paige From The Past

Lost And Bound

Charmed And Dangerous

Cole Turner (human) / possessed by the Source Of All Evil via the empty magical void inside him - where Belthazor had existed - being filled by the Source Of All Evil (after the Source was vanquished by Cole / The Hollow and The Power Of Three in "Charmed And Dangerous"):

The Three Faces Of Phoebe

Marry-Go-Round

The Fifth Halliwell

Saving Private Leo

Bite Me

We're Off To See The Wizard

Long Live The Queen

Womb Raider (Cole's voice - only in the last scene...)

Cole Turner (human in spirit form) - a spirit in the astral Demonic Wasteland:

Which Way Now?

Charmed - Season 5:

Cole Turner (human) / raw demonic powers from Demonic Wasteland, returned to Life:

A Witches Tail Part 1 & Part 2

Happily Ever After

Siren Song

Witches In Tights

Sympathy For The Demon

A Witch In Time

Cole Turner (human) / raw demonic powers from Demonic Wasteland, returned to Life, begins going insane from a combination of the toxic effects of demonic powers based on concentrated evil, despair, and loneliness:

Sam, I Am

Y Tu Mummy Tambien

Cole Turner (human) / raw demonic powers from Demonic Wasteland, returned to Life - having completely lost his sanity:

The Importance Of Being Phoebe

Cole Turner (human) / Avatar of Force and Power then changed to: Cole Turner (human) in an alternate reality / with the demonic powers of Belthazor (but not with Belthazor reincarnated), and also with the same physical and magical venerabilities he had when he was part of Cole Turner / Belthazor (due to Cole having "assumed the role of"Cole Turner / Belthazor via displacing that alternate Cole Turner / Belthazor inside the alternate reality his Avatar spell created):

Centennial Charmed

Charmed - Season 7:

Cole Turner (human in spirit form) - now sane again - trapped in a void in-between Life and Death - still with some limited magical powers that let him be seen, heard by and interact to some limited degree with those in the World (including Drake), and also apparently even more so with those on the edge of death (2):

The Seven Year Witch

(1) [Cut to the living room. Cole, Kurzon and Little Phoebe are there. Little Phoebe is screaming and then faints on the couch. Kurzon throws an energy ball at Little Phoebe.]

Cole: No! (Cole blocks little Phoebe's body and the energy ball hits him. Kurzon looks surprised.) Leave the girl alone!

Kurzon: Belthazor? I thought you were dead.

Cole: He is! (A dagger materialises in Cole's hand and he throws it at Kurzon. Kurzon pulls it out of his body.)

Kurzon: It'll take more than that to stop me.

Cole: Very well. (Cole creates and throws a demonic fireball at Kurzon, knocking him down. Kurzon gets back up.)

Kurzon: The Source!

[Piper, Phoebe, Paige and Leo run down the stairs. Kurzon shimmers out...]

(2) Piper's spirit: What are you exactly? Ghost, demon, poltergeist, nightmare?

Cole: None of the above. We're caught in a cosmic void…between Life and Death.

Piper's spirit: I’m stuck with you?"

Cole: No. If you play your cards right, you can get out of this nasty limbo. I’m the one who’s here for all eternity...

and:

Cole: I’m cursed to live in eternity, without love, for what I’ve done, and I accept that. But I don't want Phoebe to be cursed, too. She needs love. She deserves it. But she's not going to keep looking for it unless you give her a reason to. Now, you and Leo are that reason...

Mtq (talk) 20:56, 1 July 2008 (UTC) <snip>[reply]

Mtq (talk) 20:56, 1 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 20:56, 1 July 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 12:00, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 9 October 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 18:47, 16 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Cole Turner → Cole Turner (Charmed) – no clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC Joeykai (talk) 15:32, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nomination and also support creation of a Cole Turner disambiguation page that would list Cole Turner (soccer), Cole Turner (American football) as well as Cole Turner (Charmed). —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 23:11, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom and Roman Spinner. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:00, 12 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Shwcz (talk) 15:23, 15 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.