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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was - deleted - SimonP 04:57, Mar 29, 2005 (UTC)

Ivan Cherevko

[edit]

Listed for speedy by Hedley, because "Only Google hits are on pages containing this Wikipedia content or entries into 'Ivan' or 'births' lists labelling him a child prodigy. How is this person notable? Saying their IQ is 'much higher than 200' probably means they added themselves, his book gives no results bar those contexts just displaying the article shown on Wikipedia. I nominated for speedy delete because I see 'self-vanity' articles nominated all of the time." , then anon changed it to vfd and forgot to actually add it. From talk page: "How notable is this person? There is exactly 1 Google hit which is another wikipedia article. — Lady Lysine Ikinsile 10:16, 2004 Jun 20 (UTC) - Definite hoax, no relevant hits in Cyrillic. Grue 20:50, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)". Delete. Grue 09:56, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)


Seems like in Ukrainian Wikipedia no one heard of him either. Grue 15:55, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)

These accounts were created after the vote began:

  • Delete. I am pretty sure I saw this as VfD yesterday or the day before, but I can't seem to find it. At any rate, after this is deleted, the links the editor added on the pages Child prodigy, List of people by name: Chb-Che, Generation Y, and 1991 should be deleted as well. RidG (talk) 10:11, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)
  • Needless to say, as the nominator for speedy, I vote delete. Hedley 18:03, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • I am plain citizen of Ukraine. My name will not tell you anything, but name of Ivan is known in all corners of out country. I hope you'll excuse me for my poor English. I with my friends was very glad and proud of our country when we saw this article. I was confused and ashamed when I encountere this VfD - this article shows facts, not "hoax" or some other fraud. Hedley, Grue and RidG are trying to make their guesses to be facts. But is there really any reason to delete Ivan Cherevko article? What the honorable criticists are negating? Fact, that Ivan finished the school at eleven years ( [1] - article in a "Russian advertising - Russian newspaper New York", [2] - Kiev's education)? That he is studying in one of the elite Ukrainian universities in such a young age ( [3] - article in big Ukrainian newspaper "the Day")? That Ukrainian Academy of Sciences has published his book when he was ten years old ([4] - "Pleyady" publishing house article)? Fact, that he is an author of his own published ecological theory (Seventh International University Conference in field of Applied Mathematics and Informatics, Lviv, Ukraine, 2004)? You accuse this article of hoax and vanity. Hoax is anything deliberately intended to deceive ([5]). There are links from independent sources listed above, that prove almost everything that Ivan Cherevko is about. I hope there is a lot of Wikipedians that speak Russian and Ukrainian. Vanity is an excessive pride in or admiration of one's own appearance or archievements ([6]). If there is only one such kid in Ukraine, country with 50-million population, where does "excessive" pride can came from? I stated before that everything in this brief article is correct and corresponds with my image of Ivan Cherevko, child prodigy from Ukraine. Keep - --Mykola Petrenko 18:12, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Look, there are NO Google hits for both Russian and Ukrainian spelling of his name, a few lines about him in newspaper isn't enough, a book written under a pseudonym could've easily been written by anyone else and a statement about IQ is completely unverifiable. Obviously he's not as notable as you want him to be, even in Ukraine. Grue 18:47, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Anyone so 'notable' nationwide would have a more vivid set of Google results. The first article mentions Ivan/Vanya Cherevko - Even if that is the same person, how does that justify inclusion? Another article I translated is about young scientists - Nothing to do with Cherevko. I assume you must be affliated or the article writer - I'll be voting delete until you can prove his notability. Furthermore, the article was originally written by 'Yanus' who only edited a few articles, the majority adding Cherevko's name. Possibly self-addition/vanity.Hedley 19:03, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • First of all - there is yandex.ru for russian spelling. Timofei, you have to know that Google does not support case endings so is very limited in russian/ukrainian search, and both russian and ukrainian version + Vanya Cherevko + Ivanko Cherevko and variation yield quite a linksome, and you also could help Mr. Hedley by adding that Ivan and Vanya are the same, and that second article clearly states in fourth paragrsph: "Close idea [to the one of Alexei Bondar] was submitted by the youngest participant of competition, Ivan Cherevko, 13-years-old sophomore student of Kyiv-Mohyla Academy..." (full text in Russian for you, Timofei: Близкой по идее оказалась и работа самого юного участника конкурса Ивана Черевко, 13-летнего студента второго курса Киево-Могилянской академии. Иван проблему утилизации бытовых отходов, в частности пищевых упаковок, предложил решать на уровне создания технологий их производства, где бы заранее закладывался экологически чистый способ их уничтожения. А так как в будущем Иван готовится стать экологом и очень переживает за «чистоту» пространства своего государства, он разработал серию игр для детей, которые бы с малых лет приучали молодое поколение не только быть экологически грамотными, но и придерживаться правил экологической культуры в своих разнообразных действиях.). If you were more attentive, you could read at link number [2], that Cherevko and Kowchuk is the same person: "Під псевдонімом Ковчук написав книгу "Мої десять". Це його перша книга , в якій відтворено бачення минулого, оцінка і характеристика теперішнього, а також погляд у майбутнє.", or 'Under pen name Kowchuk has weitten book "My ten". This is his first book, in which vision of past, analysis of present and view into future are united". And yes, from some point of view I am Ivan's affiliate, as I am one of Albert Einstein and Lewis Caroll. I am fascinated by his affairs, just like Einstein's and Caroll's, but I haven't met neither of them in reallife. Assuming such a serious accusement to the Ukrainian Academy of Science that have supported him in fraud you should have some serious proof to support it - not just "possibly". As was stated on one of the "Wikipedia:" pages, deletion is not an easy affair. You can't just say "delete-because-I-want-to". You proof is too light, I need to say? Need more links? Oh, I have handsome of them just near me, starting from homesite ([7], I guess.... Yes, exactly), and right to the text of interview at BBC russian. I want to add, that I've done not so much work gathering those links, and plain unattentiveness should not be your guideline at voting.--Mykola Petrenko 20:52, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
        • I happen to read Russian, and some Ukranian. This "он разработал серию игр для детей, которые бы с малых лет приучали молодое поколение не только быть экологически грамотными, но и придерживаться правил экологической культуры в своих разнообразных действиях" basically says that he created a series of games for children designed to promote knowledge of proper ecology, etc. - that hardly qualifies him as a child prodigy. I see absolutely nothing in the links you've posted that supports your contention that he has published his own ecological theory. I think that in this case, the burden of proof lies upon you to lend factual credibility to your assertions. I would be more than happy to review other links you post, whether in English, Russian, or Ukranian. RidG (talk) 21:12, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)
          • Well, what we've got: Child prodigy states that child prodigy is the kid that at age of 10 doing just like adult. He wrote a book at year of 10 (nobody objects this by now, I hope). Dudes, I am 19 and could never write anything like this even at the price of my life. Notability - in the meaning of google hits - is not matter of article. It is interesting (for someone), it is true and it hasn't violated any Wikipedia rules. Why delete?--Mykola Petrenko 20:39, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Seems non-notable. ral315 21:13, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete not notable. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 23:34, Mar 11, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. It's true that the references found are from the local newspapers, but they do exist in Russian/Ukrainian and I can't see any other source that could be the proof on notability. He's only a kid, right? --DmitryKo 09:56, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Did you mean to vote keep? Your comments seem to suggest your for deletion. Hedley 19:44, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • Hedley, why are you so interested in deleting this article? I see in your contributions list that pages deletion is your main Wikipedia occupancy. --Mykola Petrenko 20:39, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
        • I have a real problem with ego trips. My editing habits don't come into play here. Indeed, your only contributions are on this VfD, and so I don't see how you can talk about my intent to keep/delete an article. Hedley 19:11, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete as non-notable. Radiant! 18:18, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. Kolya Petrenko asked us to vote for Ivan if we support him. I saw him personally, when he was in our university and can definitely vote Keep.--Passwd 09:30, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • This is the user's third edit, account created after beginning of the voting. Grue 10:14, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • Exactly. I've registered just because Kolya sent message to our university's forum to support Ivan. But you could notice, that now I am actively editing some stubs in my field of expertise. I hope to become respected memeber of Wikipedia some day.--Passwd 12:14, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. I am Nikolay Smertnykh, student of National Technical University KPI. I red interview with Ivan and I want to support him.--K-n04 19:21, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Account created after VfD nomination. Grue 20:56, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • Since when was Jimbo Wales a Ukraine-related stub? This users first edit was making it one. Bizarre but i'd sense they've been here before if that was their first port of call. Hedley 22:07, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep Very big, old, smart are all notable. This doesn't seem to be a "vanity" article. Google hit counts don't prove anything by themselves. —Michael Z. 2005-03-15 02:30 Z
    • No Google hits prove it's unverifiable. Grue 06:05, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • Don't you think that the above testimony of several wikipedians verifies that this was published? Or are you saying that information on the Internet is True, but information in Ukrainian newspapers is False? —Michael Z. 2005-03-15 14:57 Z
        • The links User:Mykola Petrenko posted don't tell anything extraordinary about that person. A _single_ _brief_ mention in regional newspaper is the _only_ press coverage he got. Neither Google nor regional Ukrainian and Russian search engines know nothing about him (<=2 hits). How the HELL can this kid be notable??? If this article gets kept, it will probably have the least notable subject ever. Grue 20:31, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
          • One more fanatic of Holy Google Church. I can see, country with underdeveloped internet does not deserve to be covered in Google-based encyclopedia. Of course, Gay Nigger Association of America (43300 hits) is much more important, than, say Peter Seisenbacher (917 hits) or The Raging Wrath of the Easter Bunny (5780 hits)--Mykola Petrenko 09:17, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
            • Ukraine is NOT a country with underdeveloped Internet. Ukrainian version of Wikipedia is one of the most successful. Ukraine-related news appear in the Internet within seconds. Be honest and admit, that Ivan is just not notable enough for the encyclopedia. Grue 10:29, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
              • Well, let's be _very_ honest - there are only Ukrainian news from one point of view, one of the Yuschenkoist, and the whole uk.wikipedia.org should be marked with NPOV template. Go look for yourself. Grue, how do you describe 'notability'? There is no definition on 'Wikipedia:' pages. Go on, define it and we'll see. --Mykola Petrenko 11:08, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
              • Ukraine has Internet access and high usage rates, but I've been told there are entire cities with zero access, especially in the East. I don't know if there's any high-speed available to private individuals; even in Kiev I think access is limited to modems. —Michael Z. 2005-03-17 15:46 Z
    • Contrary to your beliefs, i'd probably say anyone who is 'sending messages to a University forum to support' (see above) is probably not notable. Google hit counts prove whether a person is or isn't important, and in this case, I haven't seen anything to show that he is. Hedley 13:59, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • Your truth. I am really not so notable - there are millions of students, chess-players and cat-lovers outta there. But I haven't put the goal to show off myself, and I still haven't got any google hits. But I will defend the right of any one that I admire - be it Ruslana or Andy Warhol, Ivan Marchuk or Ivan Cherevko. And if anyone will try to VfD those articles, I will be there to defend them. As I've red somewhere recently: if you'll burn books, you'll start to burn people some day. Don't burn books. As always, two dashes, four tildas, --Mykola Petrenko 12:47, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete: at the risk of being a spoilsport, just being a child prodigy is probably not, in and of itself, encyclopedia-worthy. I've known child prodigies. It can be a tough life or a great one, but it's not inherently notable. -- Jmabel | Talk 08:35, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC)
  • Marginal keep. It is a best practice to err on the side of inclusion and in this case there is substantial notability to justify retention of this article. --GRider\talk 17:59, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • There is no evidence of notability. All the facts in the article are unreferenced. Grue 20:17, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • Now they are referenced. Go, check by yourself. If you are too eager, Kiev is not so far, go to local library and check it. --Mykola Petrenko 09:17, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
        • Thats like me adding the Fig Roll Monster of Doom and saying it exists because theres references in a cave located on one of Jupiter's moons. If there are references you should supply them to the VfD consensus. Hedley 15:54, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
          • So Google is The Authority, and a library in Ukraine doesn't count as being on Earth? Are sure you want to say this, because it sounds completely bigoted to me? —Michael Z. 2005-03-17 15:46 Z
            • That was not what I implied. What I was stating is that it is very easy to say a library in Ukraine contains information on him, but nobody can check that, thus it is like me saying information proving the existance of Fig Roll Monster of Doom (in example) exists, but that I can't show you it. In the case of a VfD, information in a Ukrainian library isn't available, and so Google has to be the authority as there is no other alternative. Hedley 02:14, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)
            • Nobody? heh, uk.wikipeia can. In the [:uk:Іван Черевко|ukrainian page]] discussion Maksim Ye (long-time contributor with thousands of edits) supports article, and I guess, he knows a bit about existence and deeds of [[[:uk:Іван Черевко]]]] --Mykola Petrenko 11:55, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. I believe that instead of a full article, a mention should be made in the Child prodigy article, like it was made for Jessica Constant or Alia Sabur. What I feel I must say is that there, in fact, are 2570 Google hits for the Russian spelling of his name ([8] - Grue, if you didn't find any, thats probably because there's some weird sort of thing going on with codepages when cyrillic characters are used in the actual URL), and that Russian search engines do return a few results, yes. But all of those pages have already been mentioned here; its something like a dozen, or less, pages. Jashiin 13:36, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • He shouldn't be in the child prodigy article. His article is a blatant ego trip, which should have been speedied in the first place. If Cherevko stays the entire membership of MidYis and organisations of 'geniuses', assuming Cherevko is one (after all, he needs to get people from a University to 'support' him on this VfD, note all the new users voting here), should also be added to Wikipedia. Hedley 15:50, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • First, you didn't put quotes around the name, so some of these are "Cherevko Petr, Aisuk Ivan, ...". Second, there is a saxophonist, a former worker of a factory, a diver and a lot of other people who share his name. All not notable. Grue 15:55, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
      • Agreeed on both points; but then I was merely reacting to your "there are NO Google hits for both Russian and Ukrainian spelling of his name" phrase. I was just trying to be helpful, okay? Jashiin 16:11, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • See User:Mykola Petrenko. If Cherevko is so notable why is Mykola campaigning about this VfD? Hedley 15:57, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete - I learned to read when I was three too. This is just vanity. -- Cyrius|✎ 09:52, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, this guy is less notable than I AM.  ALKIVAR™ 09:54, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Results 1 - 33 of about 52 for "Ivan Cherevko" -wikipedia. (0.43 seconds)
    • Results 1 - 100 of about 695 for "Alkivar" -wikipedia. (0.68 seconds)
  • Move to User:Yanus. anthony 警告
  • Voters may want to consider that User:Mykola Petrenko is now campaigning for votes on user pages. His recent contributions contain a lot of them and to me it signifies the unimportance of this article. An example of his campaigning for help is here.
  • Keep the topic, rewrite the content. --Easyas12c 19:43, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC) Changed my mind to Delete. --Easyas12c 22:45, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Abstain. Jashiin's mother tongue is Russian so I strongly value his vote. While his google search does appear to indicate there are some hits relevant to this person's name, I don't feel qualified enough in русский язык to vote either way. —RaD Man (talk) 20:53, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete I dislike self-advertising campaign. He is not that remarkable. In Ukrainian Wikipedia on the same article votes are
    • Problematic question
    • Delete, as author don't have argument for importance of this article
    • Delete, until this child does something more remarkable.
Ilya K 09:06, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. User:Mykola Petrenko asked me to "help out" on this page. Well, if there was anything to include, I would say keep, it might be useful one day. But there's nothing there. I wonder if Mykola just went down the meta:Association of Inclusionist Wikipedians roster and started leaving messages. Judging by the fact that Easyas12c, another recent member of AIW is also voting here, that's my guess. Matthewcieplak 10:11, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Indeed, I think his desperation of doing that, among other things, didn't help his argument. Hedley 17:54, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
    • Delete, Many here read at 3 or younger.. vanity page. Will not be remarkable until the kid makes a fusion reactor out of an old watch battery, a packet of iodized salt, and a toothpick. Then again, this might make him a toddler MacGyver rather than remarkable ;) --Aika 21:36, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

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