Talk:Fraternity Vacation

2010 comments

Fraternity Vacation is a movie from 1985 about a nerd who gets befriended from two of his frat brothers as his father offers them a condo during their vacation in Palm Springs.

The most memorable part of the movie occurs early on with Barbara Crampton and Kathleen Kinmont.

I added the fact about Barbara Crampton and Kathleen Kinmont into the main article plus the following "in a classic nude scene as they each take each other's bikinis off. The scene is most often talked about and most often viewed especially by fans of Barbara Crampton and Kathleen Kinmont." I dón't know if there is any suitable citation that I can add here to justify the latter sentence but if one does searches on the Internet of "Barbara Crampton, Kathleen Kinmont, Fraternity Vacation" you would find that it is undoubtedly true. I very much doubt that anyone would even be aware of Fraternity Vacation's existence if it weren't for the Barbara-Kathleen scene. --The Shadow Treasurer (talk) 06:04, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Fraternity vacation (DVD cover).jpg

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"Classic nude scene"

Variants of the following line keep getting inserted and removed from this article:

'The film is notable for a classic nude scene featuring Barbara Crampton and Kathleen Kinmont.'

I've removed it again, but brought it here per WP:BRD. I don't doubt there is a "nude scene" in this movie, but if we are going to claim that this is notable (compared for example to every nude scene in every other film) we need this to be supported by a reliable source which explains why the scene meets the notability criteria. Without a source, the sentence above (or variants on it) are just a personal opinion and cannot be included in the article.

If there's disagreement with this removal, let's discuss it here and obtain a consensus rather than continuing the slow-moving edit-war of adding and deleting it from the article. Euryalus (talk) 01:14, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

That scene is only remarkable aspect of the film and therefore it should be included and what I definitely do not like is the tampering and abuse that I have received from Hullaballoo Wolfowitz and I request that he would be removed as an editor on Wikipedia. The Shadow Treasurer (talk) 05:03, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Remove him as an editor over that?! Not gonna happen (nor should it). Doc talk 05:14, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

The cited source does not support that a certain nude scene is "classic" or is specifically notable in the movie (merely that it's an opening part), let alone that it's the only such scene or that this scene makes the film as a whole notable. WP:V and WP:NPOV are wikipedia policy, and it's up to the editor who wishes to add/retain disputed content to provide WP:RS to support the facts and analysis. DMacks (talk) 14:35, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

This verification failure has been noted previously in the edit-history, so rather than just tagging, I have removed it. We cannot have edit-war to insert or let it stand, given that multiple editors have observed the same problem with the content and misrepresentation of source and proponent has not been willing or able to bring it into compliance. DMacks (talk) 14:38, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

I have very little to add to the cogent comments from Euryalus and DMacks, except to note that some of The Shadow Treasurer's earlier versions of the claim, like this sequence of edits [1] (which, admittedly, The Shadow Treasurer toned down a bit soon afterwards), would make almost any editor who came across them doubt his constructive intentions. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 16:03, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

First of all do not refer to me as TST, say the whole name of The Shadow Treasurer hence why made the necessary edit to Hullaballoo Wolfowitz's remarks. Also Doc's remarks were not helpful and therefore was supporting Hullaballo Wolfowitz's abuse to me. If you are not going to be helpful don't respond at all. To be quite honest I can't understand what DMacks is talking about but I added the sources from Barbara and Kathleen's biographies from The Actress Zone and it should be good enough as it did present their work on Fraternity Vacation in perspective. That fact stays in this article and it is the end of the matter. The Shadow Treasurer

In small words: there is no evidence that this scene is a source of notability for the film. The mole on my foot is a notable aspect of my foot, but nobody cares about my foot even though it has a mole. You'll want to avoid WP:OWN and instead read WP:CONSENSUS and WP:DR to make sure you are able to continue working on Wikipedia. DMacks (talk) 03:28, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Fraternity Vacation is notable for a nude scene from Barbara Crampton and Kathleen Kinmont. Poppycock. It is not notable for this. Or if it is notable for this, neither of the sources most recently adduced for it actually say so. These sources (in some area of Wordpress.com) merely suggest that a topless or nude scene (the two sources even disagree over this) is the most notable part of these two actresses' participation. Or more strictly, they say this for the kind of audience that wants to see actresses rated by ACTING ABILITY, STARDOM, ELEGANCE, BODY, and BREASTS (their capitalization, not mine). Deleted from the WP article is any mention of Ebert's review, previously and fraudulently presented as evidence for this claim. Unlike this Wordpress.com site, (a) Ebert is a pundit whose opinions are discussed (if not always agreed with), and (b) Ebert writes an entire review of the film. -- Hoary (talk) 09:51, 25 July 2012 (UTC)