Talk:Zócalo

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Zócalo article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Athletics Low‑importance

	Sport of athletics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Athletics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the sport of athletics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page and join the discussion.AthleticsWikipedia:WikiProject AthleticsTemplate:WikiProject AthleticsAthletics articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Architecture Mid‑importance

	Architecture portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Architecture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Architecture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ArchitectureWikipedia:WikiProject ArchitectureTemplate:WikiProject ArchitectureArchitecture articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Mexico High‑importance

	Mexico portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Mexico, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Mexico on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MexicoWikipedia:WikiProject MexicoTemplate:WikiProject MexicoMexico articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Urban studies and planning High‑importance

	Architecture portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Urban studies and planning, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Urban studies and planning on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Urban studies and planningWikipedia:WikiProject Urban studies and planningTemplate:WikiProject Urban studies and planningUrban studies and planning articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

A fact from Zócalo appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 2 October 2008, and was viewed approximately 2,420 times (disclaimer) (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that in Mexico City's Zócalo, 18,000 Mexicans stripped naked for the artist Spencer Tunick?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2008/October.

Wikipedia

Was Zocalo entry, now changed

Sorry to nitpick, but I initially created the article for "Zocalo" (prior to getting an account) as an entry referring to that word and the concept that it represents.

The most recent edit changed the entry from being about a Zocalo to focusing on the Plaza de la Constitucion.

I'd like to suggest that these be separate entries. Would that be acceptable?

63.197.234.208 00:05, 1 January 2006 (UTC) Tim Holmes[reply]

Comments

--68.32.41.239 15:31, 22 April 2006 (UTC) The origin of the term zócalo is false, it is a spanish word, but I don´t know the correct word in english. "Zócalo" means something like "the base of a monument". The plaza was named zócalo because for a long time there was an unused base there.[reply]

Obviously, the definition listed above is limited both in meaning and provenance. The Free Dictionary claims that the term derives thusly:

[American Spanish zócalo, from Spanish, socle, from Italian zoccolo; see socle.]

This makes sense, because a socle is defined thus:

so·cle (s k l) n. 1. A plain square block higher than a plinth, serving as a pedestal for sculpture, a vase, or a column. 2. A plain plinth supporting a wall.

[French, from Italian zoccolo, wooden shoe, from Latin socculus, diminutive of soccus, a kind of light shoe; see sock1.]

And definición.org defines a zócalo as an:

Elemento que permite conectar o montar, cierto tipos de lamparas. También se denomina así, al elemento donde se insertan los terminales de una válvula o tubo de rayos catódicos. Cuerpo inferior de una construcción cuya función es elevar los basamentos a un mismo nivel. m. Base o cuerpo inferior de un edificio. Friso o franja que se coloca o se pinta en la parte inferior de una pared.

This source includes a definition with which I am familiar in connection with the Central American construction trade: the decorative franja or lower strip that we would associate with the area covered by wainscoting. This set of meanings is supported by the following synonyms provided by definición.org: abecedario, abecé, apoyo, asiento, basa, base, cimiento, fondo, fundamentos, pata, peana, pedestal, pie, principios, rudimentos, soporte, sostén, basamento, friso, fundamento, plinto, podio. And according to the University of Murcia (Spain) website (http://ditec.um.es/laso/docs/tut-tcpip/3376c210.html), in information technology, a zócalo es un tipo especial de descriptor de fichero que un proceso usa para solicitar servicios de red al sistema operativo.

Name change

I ~~moved~~ tried to move this to Zócalo for the sake of having a proper name. -- Chris Ccool2ax contrib. 13:27, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

Zocalo → Zócalo - Rationale: Zócalo is the right name, can't move beacuse a redirect is in place. -- Chris Ccool2ax contrib. 13:34, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

Support per nom; redirect will handle "Zocalo". David Kernow 17:44, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Done. —Nightst a llion (?) 10:01, 29 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Eric Meyer, CSS guru, just called the Internet "the ultimate zócalo"...

Size

Could somebody please provide the dimensions of the flag in the Zocalo of Mexico City? Thanks

How about the dimensions of the Zocalo itself?Jm546 00:16, 11 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

North American or U.S. sources and Mexican sources differ on the origin of the actual marble block that became the "zocalo." North American sources (for example, Lonely Planet guidebook and "La Capital" by Jonathan Kandell) indicate that the zocalo or plinth that remained in the plaza was left from the bronze statue of Carlos V of Spain that had been in the plaza but was removed after Mexico's independence. Mexican sources indicate that the zocalo or plinth was the aborted beginning of a monumental column to Mexican independence. Since the base of the statue of Carlos V was probably removed in favor of the marble base to the proposed column, the marble base would have lasted much longer and was likely to be the actual zocalo used in the name "Zocalo". In addition, there is a tendency for local, Spanish-speaking sources, especially those connected to the National Institute of Anthropolgy and History, to be more authoritative. The bronze equestrian statue of Carlos V is now located in the nearby Plazuela de la Mineria but it is not known if the current plinth is the same as the one that original supported the statue in the Zocalo.

Move portions to Plaza de la Constitución

I put a "move portions" template on the Mexico City Zocalo section in this article. I would like to see most of that section's text moved or merged into the Plaza de la Constitución article, leaving this article with a brief history of how the first Zocalo was established and how it got its informal name. Binksternet (talk) 17:05, 18 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support - This article (Zócalo) should be about the term "zócalo", exploring its origin in the Mexico City plaza, and it should mention notable zócalos in Mexico. Most of the material that is specific to the Plaza de la Constitución should be moved there. I'll start doing the merger sometime soon if there are no objections. LinguistAtLarge • Msg 17:53, 8 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Against Actually the two articles should be merged. To Mexicans in general, the name "Zocalo" refers to the plaza in Mexico City. While this alternative name has been adopted for many (but not all) city/town plazas in the country, that alternative designation is derived from this particular "Zocalo" Separating the two terms does not make sense.Thelmadatter (talk) 02:00, 28 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's a good point. Both article titles would bring the reader to the same data. Do you think the main repository of text should be Plaza de la Constitución or Zócalo? The other one would become a redirect. Binksternet (talk) 15:00, 28 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If I remember correctly, Wikipedia prefers the use of the more common name as the title. ¿Verdad? :D Thelmadatter (talk) 14:33, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

More people will search Zócalo and Zocalo (no accent) than they will Plaza anything. Binksternet (talk) 19:27, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I went ahead and did the merge.Thelmadatter (talk) 15:40, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

¡Gracias! Binksternet (talk) 16:41, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This article is flawed

It claims that it is the second largest city square in the world just after Moscow's Red Square. However, there are several city squares that are far larger than both the Red Square and the Zócalo. I propose "Zocalo" to redirect to "Plaza de la Constitución" and to have the valid information from this article to be merged within the aforementioned article.

Thanks. 189.141.63.87 (talk) 08:04, 25 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've already corrected the statement about the second largest square in the world. As far as redirecting zócalo to Plaza de la Constitución, that shouldn't happen. (see merger discussion right above this one.) LinguistAtLarge • Msg 17:56, 8 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thedates are wrong.

I was born in 1950, I grew up in Mexico City and and I do not remember ever seeing gardens or other things in the zócalo. The article says that by the 1970's they had been removed. I do not know the date, but it must have been in the 1940s, not the 1970s when the pathways, trees and gardens were removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Josearnoldo (talk • contribs) 21:12, 17 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]