Talk:Gene Scott

POV

This page has clearly been edited by the Melissa Scott camp and should be deleted. It lacks any objectivity and doesn't discuss the schism between the folowers of Doctor Gene Scott and the followers of his wife Melissa (a.k.a Barbie Bridges, according to a Marie Claire article) Scott nee Pastore. It doesn't discuss how Melissa has completely altered Scott's ministry and removed many of his core teachings, such as the Lost Tribes/Celts connections, Demonology, Mysteries of the Universe, Atlantis, Stars, etc., as well as an estimated 60,000 hours of Gene Scott recordings that are no longer for sale. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dtillman68 (talk • contribs) 16:03, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

This page is pure POV, and doesn't even show a shred of objectivity. Oberiko 23:18, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Yup, indeed. I believe Scott is now dead. Also, the "Faithdome" probably has the largest LA area congregation nowadays, but dunno the exact number of attenders. --avnative 02:52, Aug 7, 2004 (UTC)

Scott is not dead...not hardly..Visit www.drgenescott.com

(this comment was made before Scott's death)

I agree -- she should not be judged by her past. If you want to research her life before ministry, check the court records under her former names: Peroff and Pastore. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.155.150.114 (talk) 20:34, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, Dtillman, if you bothered to actually READ the Marie Claire article you referenced, it says she has DENIED that she ever had a past as a pornographic actress. So, while it's clear that you're aware of the article, it's also clear you didn't bother to actually READ it. It seems like those who are throwing all these negative allegations & attacks at Pastor Scott are nothing more than disgruntled ex-followers of Dr. Scott who disagree with him having decided to let his wife take over after he passed away. They simply don't want to stomach the fact that he was fine with letting her take over for him. He actually seems like an innovator for letting his wife continue on with his teachings, as you don't usually see women taking on the tasks Pastor Scott has taken on. 76.235.248.47 (talk) 11:42, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

I remember watching Gene Scott broadcasts which were dominated by his earnest discussions of his thoroughbred race horses. This article mentions none of that or other of the many "non-faith" controversies Scott was involved in -- which just shows that this article is subject to the "who edits most and last" vulnerability of Wikipedia. CHCollins 108.250.184.53 (talk) 01:07, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Minor edit

Removed two redundant words in last sentence.

The contents of this article need to be deleted and rewritten

I have absolutely no connection to Gene Scott, but I was a little surprised to find such a biased article that calls the man a "Nazi" in the first few lines. This is totally wrong and obviously the text was written by someone who has ax to grind. I am interested because I followed the link after trying to clean up all of the "Lost Ten Tribes" tangled mess spinning off Herbert W. Armstrong and the history of broadcasting that involves Armstrong. Eugene Scott is or has been on a considerable number of broadcast and satellite outlets and he also linked with Armstrong during the constitutional challenge brought by the State of California. I am going to move the existing text here and recreate a new stub. Then what will be on the Talk page can either be salvaged or dumped while totally new copy can also be added. Please jump in and assist cleaning this mess up. MPLX/MH 03:36, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

War with IRS

Many viewers will recall the long long battle with the IRS attempting to tax Dr Scotts revenues and that war might be mentioned in this article as Dr Scott's successful defeat of the IRS is actually a leading event defending the separation of church and state. compari jr, "drink grain tee" 69.121.221.97 (talk) 05:45, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Old and very biased text that needs sifting

This is the old text that was on the site:

He is ardently anti-Semitic in his radio sermons (see Nazi).

Dr. Scott was hired as a consultant to assist the troubled Faith Center Church in Glendale California in the 1970s. At the time, the debt-ridden Faith Center owned three television stations KHOF-TV 30 in San Bernardino, KVOF-TV channel 38 in San Francisco, and WHCT-18 in Hartford CT. In addition the Church also owned KHOF-FM in Los Angeles, CA. Each of the broadcast licenses was for a full-time commercial license, which would have allowed the church to sell airtime if they so desired, i.e. as a separate business activity not related to the church's non-profit status. However, at the time that Dr. Scott arrived on the scene, Faith Center was facing imminent bankruptcy, having inadequate funds to maintain operations.

The board of Faith Center resigned, and Dr. Scott went on the air to try to raise money to save the Faith Broadcasting Network. This would prove to be quite controversial in the years to come since at that time, that is, in the mid-'70s most cable companies carried only 12 channels - and it was therefore to the great ire of many a television viewer that one of those precious channels appeared to be carrying the same religious broadcast almost 24 hours a day. Some cable companies refused to carry the program, despite the so-called must-carry rules of the Federal Communications Commission, which requires regional cable operators to carry all local broadcasters upon request. In some cases, television viewers appealed to local members of Congress to force their local cable operators to carry Dr. Scott's program, prompting the [[Federal Communications Commission FCC to investigate at least one now defunct local cable operator for refusing to carry the broadcast, while at the same time a different bureau of FCC was trying to have Dr. Scott taken off the air altogether for refusing to turn over the name of every person who ever made a donation, the amount of that donation, and what the donation was spent for.

Please help to create a new and unbiased article to replace it. MPLX/MH 03:41, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

All of the following italicized information is factual and could be cleaned up and reintegrated back in to the article:

Dr. Scott was hired as a consultant to assist the troubled Faith Center Church in Glendale California in the 1970s. At the time, the debt-ridden Faith Center owned three television stations KHOF-TV 30 in San Bernardino, KVOF-TV channel 38 in San Francisco, and WHCT-18 in Hartford CT. In addition the Church also owned KHOF-FM in Los Angeles, CA. Each of the broadcast licenses was for a full-time commercial license, which would have allowed the church to sell airtime if they so desired, i.e. as a separate business activity not related to the church's non-profit status. However, at the time that Dr. Scott arrived on the scene, Faith Center was facing imminent bankruptcy, having inadequate funds to maintain operations. The board of Faith Center resigned, and Dr. Scott went on the air to try to raise money to save the Faith Broadcasting Network. This would prove to be quite controversial in the years to come since at that time, that is, in the mid-'70s most cable companies carried only 12 channels - and it was therefore to the great ire of many a television viewer that one of those precious channels appeared to be carrying the same religious broadcast almost 24 hours a day. Some cable companies refused to carry the program, despite the so-called must-carry rules of the Federal Communications Commission, which requires regional cable operators to carry all local broadcasters upon request. In some cases, television viewers appealed to local members of Congress to force their local cable operators to carry Dr. Scott's program, prompting the Federal Communications Commission FCC to investigate at least one now defunct local cable operator for refusing to carry the broadcast, while at the same time a different bureau of FCC was trying to have Dr. Scott taken off the air altogether for refusing to turn over the name of every person who ever made a donation, the amount of that donation, and what the donation was spent for.

The case regarding the refusal to turn over donor records to the government actually went all the way to the United States Supreme Court with Ed Masry (of Erin Brockovich fame) representing Gene Scott and Faith Center.

Gene Scott ultimately lost his FCC licenses for the above mentioned stations because he used funds designated for one project (a fountain in front of the church building in Glendale) for other projects (specifically studio lights and some broadcast equipment that needed immediate replacement). As this constituted fraud the FCC prevailed. Since that time Gene Scott has designated that all donations be given to him specifically and has made it clear that he can do anything he wants with the money. He has also specified that receipts for tax deduction purposes will not be granted for these donations.

I have cleaned the site up twice. Okay so the text above is now a cleaned-up version of the original. What it lacks is some case numbers. I know that Scott was involved in both case law, constitutional issues and FCC issues, but a link to the FCC is not much use. If you want to help please document with references the cases referenced above and then it can simply be cut and pasted into an appropriate sub-paragraph concerning ===Legal issues=== MPLX/MH 22:45, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Read before rewriting

I wrote a good deal of this article, which I based on a Los Angeles Times story on Scott (see sources section), only to see it the article undergo several POV based attacks, most notably from users 66.215.201.131 and 68.169.154.152. MPLX was kind enough to delete a good deal of the POV material; however in so doing, he/she managed to delete a good deal of biographical non-POV material concerning Scott's biography, material taken from the Times article. While a pro- or anti-Scott bias is terrible, including some of Scott's remarks that some might consider rather unusual is merely informative. All the biographical information comes from the Times article, and the "Style" and "Family" sections are quite relevant and non-POV. Please read the Times article before going on a deletion spree, wiping out useful material that took hours to write.Zantastik 07:10, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Hours to cut and paste from an article retracted by the Los Angeles Times? You don't even have his church listed in the correct state. You destroyed an exceptionally well-crafted article by replacing the work of MPLX. What you've posted might as well be replaced once again by Scott's own biography.

I don't engage in revert wars. This article is not encyclopedia material. To link Scott's alleged prostate cancer with accusations about his congregation is very sub-standard and very poor writing. The opening lines are supposed to give a "name, rank and serial number" type of information.

All POV stuff attacking Scott should be under ===Dissent=== or something similar. All references to legal issues should give case references.

You can't just cite an online Internet newslink because as with most papers the link will be removed within a month by the paper and they will charge for the information. So if you have information that is factual and you are so concerned about it, then do your homework by downloading the article and editing it. The legal stuff should be under ===Legal issues===.

I know that Scott has become the basis of some very important constitutional issues to do with IRS tax status for non-profits, FCC broadcasting issues and the State of California vs Worldwide Church of God constitutional issues over the relationship between church and state.

The newspaper source will soon vanish if it hasn't already. If you have the material then I suggest that you do the work necessary to incorporate it in an encyclopedic manner. As for me I am not wasting any more time on this article. MPLX/MH 15:52, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

First -- to the individual who said that I cut and pasted from the Times article -- if you had actually read my article and the LA TIMES article, you'd know that what you just said is a total load of crap. I used the Times article as a source, yes, but I completely rewrote it. Read both and see. And is it really retracted? Why don't you provide a reference to back that up? I linked to the times article archived on an anti-Scott site simply because I can't link to the Lexis-Nexis version of it. The text is the same, and it will not vanish because it is not stored on the paper's website. MPLX's article was anything but "exceptionally well crafted" He just took material that I wrote, deleted a good deal of it, leaving us with a pitiful little stub.

Did I get what state a certain church is in wrong? Then correct what I've written, rather than simply deleting what I've written. MPLX's article is pretty suspect. Why did he delete the material about Scott's early life? Why did he delete the section describing his time in graduate school, only to note the subject of his thesis? It is relevant that a preacher did not receive formal theological training -- whether this is good or bad is something about which we should be agnostic. Furthermore, why were the interesting comments Scott made about his first wife left out? This is relevant.

I do give MPLX credit, however, for vastly improving the "style" section. What (s)he wrote there was excellent and I thank him/her for it. I would like to see my specific objections addressed in the previous paragraph. If useful material continues to be simply deleted, this will certainly devolve into a revert war (albeit my reversion will include MPLX's excellent "style" section).Zantastik 08:31, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I am the one who re-worked the Style Section. I am glad you like it. I tried to keep it accurate and fair without removing anything relevant. I think MPLX's suggestion to put other more questionable material and material with a POV in to in a separate section is an excellent idea. Certainly we can work together on this project. -- 68.169.154.152

Before my user name is dragged in again with comments such as a total load of crap, which is bad form because it reveals a POV emotional involvement with the subject resulting in a personal attack, I would suggest that the question of Wiki requests for documentation is followed. Merely sourcing highly inflamatory words attacking Gene Scott will only invite pro-Scott supporters to respond and hence you will have a revert war. I am no longer engaged in this article. I have no involvement with Gene Scott, pro or con. However, the standard is not to add editorial opinion in the opening lines but to state fact. I tried to get the article to conform to those standards since I had previously helped to create it as a result of a spin-off to other articles that I was working on.

Documentation means finding more than one source for highly POV remarks that are to say the least insulting to Gene Scott. If you want to state certain things as fact then simply list your sources. How you can say what his own motivation and thought process is without either a) quoting from a Gene Scott deposition given under oath to a court of law; b) medical reports; d) his own writings as published by him, I do not know. I don't believe you can. You only end up with a tabloid smear. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia that can be cited as its own source. It is the practice of newspapers to archive their articles and charge for them so that they are no longer available. Also, please let us remember as Dan Rather has discovered (and no, I am not a Bush supporter), citing one source on the air does not make it so. Citing CBS-TV alone is therefore not acceptable if what is being cited is an attack. This is not supposed to be an article in a tabloid newspaper and the article has already reverted to becoming just that.

Now leave me out of it because it is your baby and you are free to do whatever you want to do - just quit attacking me and dragging me into a debate. I don't do reverts but I do believe in truth in reporting. So if you want to play Editor in Chief, have at it. Just remember that others looking at the article for reference may take one look, scoff and go and find a real encyclopedia article! That would hurt the reputation of Wikipedia and I don't think that anyone wants that. MPLX/MH 15:38, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

User:68.239.20.198 Vandalism

This page just came up on my watchlist page. It would appear that if a strict editorial standard is not applied to this article that it will be destroyed because User:68.239.20.198 has now sprinkled the word dictator from the top of the article to at least the section on marriages. I am not getting involved with rewriting (see my comments above), but this article requires serious policing and the highest encyclopedic standards of writing if it is not to be turned into mere toilet wall writing. Just removing the word highlighted is not enough. So if you care about this topic you need to work on it. MPLX/MH 14:19, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I discovered that the entire page had been systematically vandalised by User:68.239.20.198 and so I used the last written text by User:68.169.154.152 to restore the NPOV tone of the article. MPLX/MH 21:42, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It actually appears that you used the text as prepared by me (68.169.154.152) to restore the page rather than that of 68.239.20.198. And for that I thank you. -- 68.169.154.152

You are correct and welcome! I amended my original comment above to remove the typo. MPLX/MH 17:48, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Angels

The matierial about Angels is important because Scott and his mother believe that it suggests God's belessing upon Scott. Whether one believes it or not, it should be included, as it relates to Scott. Note the the paragraph never says that these things happened, or that they did not -- only that Scott's mother thinks they did.Zantastik 07:06, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Okay - 68.169.154.152

Merge from Melissa Holliday

Removed tag because there was nothing to merge from. Someone saved a blank page which is now a redirect to this article. MPLX/MH 17:46, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Very, very biased language.

"Scott's broadcasts fell into two distinct categories. The first was the broadcast of the traditional Sunday service in a format familiar to Protestant Christianity. The second was a broadcast of what Scott had named the "Festival of Faith". Each "Festival of Faith" was a very informal, non-traditional broadcast featuring Scott sitting alone in a chair, often smoking a cigar or a pipe, telling lies, interacting with the crew and the "Voices of Faith", pastoring his staff or his congregation, and making occasional ignorant remarks that to some were considered "off-color". These "Festival of Faith" broadcasts featured Scott not only pontificating from the Bible and other great Chirstian teachers from the past, but also plagiarizing from books on UFOs, demonology, The Great Pyramid of Giza, or similar viewer-grabbing topics."

Having watched Dr. Scott for over 20 years, he was always very clear about any source material he used, contra the "plagiarizing" charge above. As for "telling lies", I'd like to see that substantiated. Thanks for not allowing the above unsubstantiated charges on the main page.

Cooleyez229 edits 2005.10.24 & 2006.02.21

I recently had a renewed interest in Dr. Scott from an avatar a member of a forum I go to. Other than the funny glasses on the pic (which may or may not have been Photoshopped on), I knew the dude from somewhere, so I asked my friend, and he said, "Oh yeah, he died earlier this year." I remember seeing his broadcasts on satellite dish way back in the early 1990s, and as a 10-year-old thought they were pretty damn funny. Came across this article... whoever did the most recent edit before I got my hands on it seems to have an agenda on their hands. I cleaned it up the best I could. I see the article on Melissa Scott suffers the same fate as this one. I'd edit it, but don't know much about her, and if I were to clean it up, I might as well delete the whole article on grounds of bias. - Cooleyez229 07:27, 24 Oct 2005 (UTC)

I'd just like to add here, let's keep the article relevant to what Dr. Scott did. If anybody would like to write about what his widow has done, there is an article for that. --Cooleyez229 18:59, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Again, if anybody is looking to write about the actions of Dr. Scott's widow, once again, there is a seperate article for that. --Cooleyez229 06:17, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

No there isn't, as of 12/28/07. BH —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.67.236.132 (talk) 20:09, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Shortwave

Recordings of Gene Scott can still be heard via shortwave on the University Network: http://www.drgenescott.com/swave.htm . I'm hearing him here in northern california. bneely 06:30, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

As well as via Satellite and the Internet - Joe

An accurate view of Gene Scott's teachings

Gene Scott believed and taught that "before the worlds were formed," the Creator of the universe looked out across time and chose for his own benefit those who would have the spiritual discernment to accept the teachings of Christ and enter the Kingdom of God in eternity. For that reason, he often taught that he was not interested in "saving" anyone! What, at first glance, appeared to be the words of a raving maniac, were in fact the words of someone claiming to be well acquainted with the criteria of who God damned! Thus his recommendtion to some viewers to "go to hell!"

Thus it is possible to make the following summaries: JESUS CHRIST was a wandering rabbi. PAUL was an Israelite, of the tribe of Benjamin, born in Tarsus,Turkey, a tentmaker, Roman citizen a persistent persecutor of the Church. MARTIN LUTHER was a German Catholic monk. and GENE SCOTT was a television evangelist.

The internet, in 2007, is the only democratic source of information available. The price of learning the truth is the necessity of wading through a lot of misinformation. At the moment, almost synonymous, with checking a subject on the internet is looking it up on Wikipedia. Wikipedia can always be counted on for some negative information on the subject matter. Negative information that websites controlled by the subject would not include.

This talk page discussion is a summary from memory of content broadcast around the world 24 hours a day for 24 years. The content was about belief systems. Only viewers gaining insight or education from the program content would consistently tune in. To be original research, it almost of necessity has to be point-of-view. Most of the distortions in Wikipedia are from agnostics and skeptics projecting their explanations of the events in Scott's life.

Scott spent a lot of time on the scriptures in the Old Testament. The gospels covered the teachings and events of the life of Christ. Saint Paul's letters were to the first churches of Asia Minor. Constantine incorporated Christainity as the official religion of the Roman empire and this permamently instituted the Church. The suppression of the scientific knowledge of Galileo and others by the Church led to a rejection of Christainity as a belief system in favor of the scientific method.

Getting a Master's degree and a teaching credential in the Cal State system entitled Gene Scott to teach in secondary schools and junior colleges in California. It was only when he entered the doctorate program at Stanford that he learned the tenents of EXPERIMENTALISM: the underlying philosophy on which John Dewey's methodology of progressive education was based.

Scott taught that EXPERIMENTALISM postulated that there were no absolutes of any kind. That there were no entities that preexisted or continued to exist. That there was only a sea of relationships. That there was no "you" that would endure, and that your only existence after death was the influence your "wave" of existence left on the universe.

From this the SELF became the criteria of value and truth and that what was "true" was what worked for you: PRAGMATISM!

His acknowledgement of the modern rejection of the biblical belief systems led to a study of the pyramid which he felt was a sign and a symbol mentioned in Isaiah left to a scientific age.

The sacred pyramid inch preserved in the map room near the king's chamber is exactly one five-hundred millionith of the polar diameter of the earth. The pyramid is at the intersection of the longitude and latitude that crosses the most amount of land putting it at the center of the land mass of the earth. On a rectangular global map the earth is divided into four equal land masses. The circumference of the circle in the map room is exactly 364.242 pyramid inches which is the number of rotations of the earth on its axis during one orbit of the sun. When a leading pyramidologist died his wife chose Gene Scott to be the recipient of her late husband's library.

Scott sued Time, Inc. and Time magazine ceased refering to him as a "television evangelist" which he felt was equivalent to a racial epitah. Much of his bizarre behavior was designed to annoy legalist and fundamentalist into tuning out.

He rarely gave interviews. He avoided publishing succinct summaries of his teachings. He felt he was a primary source available every where. It is difficult to avoid original research of his programs themselves and hard to find published information

His strategy was to create a "live" independent television presence along with re-runs not controlled by any governmental or institutional hierarchy. His programs were interactive and self-financing. [ really foreshadowing the internet].

A large percentage of the TV time was devoted to hand-held exterior shots or horses or places he visited with mostly non-religious music in the background. This gave time for feedback from the audience and fund-raising. He had about 30 people taking phone messages which he would read during the breaks and also read to the viewers when he was back "live,"

This allowed him to learn and refine his own teachings. Viewers would bring his attention to the definition of "fundamentalism." The Paolo Leoni book: THE LEIPZIG CONNECTION about the introduction of "progressive education" into the Columbia School of Education was brought to his attention this way. Bookstore soon sold out of any book he started reading on the air.

If one watched him from the early 80's when he was elected pastor of Faith Center and started appearing on TV stations one would realize he taught by example. Each crisis or battle lead to proof of his belief in God. He took over a church in bankruptcy and taught how faith works by making it financially thriving. He took criticism of raising money and illustrated that giving was in and of itself and deeply religious act and therefore off limits for government scrutiny. When the federal government revoked the licenses of the UHF TV stations in Glendale, San Francisco and Hartford, Conneticut, Scott pulled the plug and the resulting white noise that filled millions of TV screens that night was a chilling example to everyone watching of government censorhip.

His stand on principle lead to entering into an arrangment to share a satellite transponder with the Playboy Channel and he was soon reaching "sinners" all over the United States including many cable systems. His shortwave station in the British West Indies was immune to FCC regulation and blanketed North and South America.

When the godless SOVIET UNION suddenly disintegrated in 1989, the Berlin wall fell, the Iron Curtain collapsed, democracy took over the former Soviet bloc countries, Gene Scotts satellite feed was suddenly blanketing the earth from the giant Radio Moscow transmitters, including the Middle Eastern countries and Israel and Africa.

No other human being in the last 24 years has covered as many diverse subjects; clarified as many of the doctrines of Christianity and been as accessable around the earth to those who are open to the message.

The aquatic center and library projects were more vehicles for people like Mayor Tom Bradley to provide a social opportunity for people like Henry Kissinger or the CEO of ARCO to meet the man they watched on TV. Listing these charitable causes ignores the profound influence he had on religious thinking in the world.

Scott did not reject standard medical treatment. He had complete dental implants, a stint in his heart and frequently took nitro pills. He was under the care of the finest physicians in California and frequently showed macro-close-ups of the written results of all his medical test on the air. He did not reject standard medical treatment in favor of herbs. His life from 1980-2005 completely fullfilled the prophecies Claire Grace made to him regarding television, healing associated with his ministry and finding happiness at the end of his life. [Melissa] The last five years, in his old age, he turned completely inward to examining in microscoptic detail the original Hebrew and Greek texts of the Bible. His most forceful contributions were made in the 1980's and 1990's.

THE SACRED AND THE PROFANE---future dicrections: In the old testament, as a form of worship [worth-ship] man took his best crops and made a "burnt-offering" to God. So the money to purchase the building on Hope street was not "lost." The donors gave it as an act of worship to God,and reeped the reward, instantly, in His eyes (if He exist!) Further, Scott taught, Paul taught if you have been brought closer to God, by the teachings of a man, you should share-materially with the person who taught you. Scott stated that since the act of giving, was in and of itself, a religious act, the government had no business examining what it was used for, and Scott often stated he would fly out across the Pacific ocean and dump the cash out of the plane if he felt like it. Thus it would be "lost" just the same as if he had made a bonfire with it.Joe Reynolds 08:17, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Some of this info could be incorporated in to the Broadcast and Stage Presentation section. Most of it, however, is factually in error and pure POV. Also, it is E. Raymond Capt, not "E. Raymond Capp". And Scott was not given Capt's library. Scott was given pyramidologist Adam Rutherford's library. You think you know what you're talking about here but you don't. This article needs much work. Please don't create more work by introducing base-less emotionally motivated nonsense and errors in to the article. Joe The Editor 19:05, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Future Direction of This Article

There is missing from the Education section his year(s) in a Bible college that I cannot recall the name of, either before he went to Chico or after that and before he entered Stanford. He had said on his program that he was "kicked out of Bible school" for "stomping it up in a jazz band" in downtown San Francisco clubs on weekends and that this precipitated his move to secular education in which he lost his faith for three years, then regained it through a hard study of the Resurrection.

Also, in 1970 when he founded Faith Center, leaving the Assemblies of God, had he not served as President of that denomination and written most of its bylaws?

Also, the actual amount of the money lost that was raised for the Church of the Open Door was $6.66 million as stated on one of the University Network programs, either when the lawsuit against Church of the Open Door began, or about the time that the "advance to the rear" was announced and the project to buy the church was abandoned. By the way it should also be mentioned that the deal was killed by a clause, unknown to Dr. Scott at the time the project was started, in the incorporation documents of the Church of the Open Door that essentially declared the property a perpetual trust through which fundamentalist doctrine should always be disseminated, and this was something Dr. Scott could not agree to. This sparked the lawsuit against COOD to have the money returned -- a trust is a liability, not an asset -- and as the battle heated up Dr. Scott realized he was not going to win against a sister church in a court of law unempathetic with the issues involved. Hence, the "advance to the rear" speech in which he declared he would rather yield the property than see it destroyed in the legal fight, and hope that the COOD organization would change course and turn the building over to another fundamentalist church, as required by the trust clause. I watched all of this happen on the University Network at the time.

Also, I think the word "protestant" should be capitalized as that is how I have always seen it spelled in every encylopedia I have ever read. That one change I will make immediately.TurtleofXanth 06:40, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I am also adding Gene Scott's original website drgenescott.com and the central basis of his teaching on another site, resurrectionism.com, to the external links. While the live streaming page is logically important, readers looking for a quick synopsis of his faith or a larger picture of his ministry might be better served by adding the other two links.TurtleofXanth 06:52, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I like the contributions you've made to the article.

No, Scott was never president of the Assemblies of God, nor did he take part in writing any of its bylaws. He was president of the Full Gospel Fellowship and did help write the bylaws that govern what became Oral Roberts University.

I recall his statement concerning being thrown out of a Bible school as well, but I can not find documentation for it. What is in the education section is from a Stanford Alumni article.

Much of the data regarding the COOD needs to be rewritten. And Scott's battle with the FCC, the passage of the Petris Bill, etc.. need to be addressed, documented and included within the article as well. Joe The Editor 09:15, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Also need to address the following in the Los Angeles University Cathedral section - "In November 2000, Pastor Melissa Scott announced during her public broadcast that the cathedral was expensive to maintain and not needed for the ministry, in view of several smaller home sanctuaries that don't require retro fitting." Should that be November 2006, and shouldn't that blurb be on the Melissa Scott (Pastor) page?TurtleofXanth 07:53, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Also in the Los Angeles University Cathedral section, this statement: "Over 1000 people are claimed to have viewed the church exhibition of the "Dr. Gene Scott Bible Collection" with its many historic Bibles, books, and manuscripts which is housed at the Los Angeles University Cathedral." I rather think this number is considerably larger, at least 10,000, because the Cathedral seats about 5,000 and has been full a number of times, with the congregation continually invited to visit the Room of the Book. Add to that visitors come from all over the nation and you don't have the same crowd every week, and it's been there for about 16 years. This also doesn't mention that the Bible Museum also has a page on the Dr. Gene Scott website, so many times that number have undoubtedly visited it online.

Where in the world did you get the idea that Los Angeles University Cathedral can seat 5,000 people? Haven't you ever been there? The Bible display was only available to the public for a brief period of time when the city was operating tours of downtown. After that ceased the only people with access to the Bible display were congregants with the pass required to attend the Sunday services. Joe The Editor 09:32, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Joe The Editor (talk • contribs) 09:30, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

In the Faith Center section, this statement is factually incorrect: "Desperate and in good faith, the congregation of Faith Center unanimously elected Dr. Scott as its new pastor. A unanimous election was a requirement set by Scott before he would agree to take over leadership of Faith Center . In addition, Scott was given complete control of all operations under the control of Faith Center . Upon bringing the center out of the red, he took permanent control of Faith Center by dissolving its polity and merging its assets into his private corporations." Actually they were so desperate, as Gene Scott related upon discovering the facts much later, that they hid about half a dozen dissenting ballots in order to get him elected on the terms he demanded. So their actions in getting him to run the church cannot be described as "in good faith," if I take the meaning of that phrase correctly.

I also do not think it is true that the assets of the church were deeded to him, as he took a salary of a dollar a year plus expenses, which were to be entirely paid by members' giving. It is my understanding that he assumed control of the non-worship related assets by forming private, wholly owned by the church, tax-paying corporations with interlocking boards of directors. Thus while technically he was still completely the boss, he did not own any church assets, only assets he earned from other sources which were under Dr. Gene Scott, Inc. and like entities. (These included the horses and the paintings which he created.) Only sanctuary areas remained under non-profit tax exempt church control, which was also run by him and which paid his dollar a year plus expenses.TurtleofXanth 08:24, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

TurtleofXanth 08:24, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Marriages

In February 2009, there was a marriages section. In August 2009, it's gone. It's not too much to ask that the web page include at least accurate dates on the marriages.

Once upon a time there was a web page for his widow, the former Melissa Pastore, but now it directs to Eugene Scott (Yes I know the page was redirected and locked in 2007). She is not Eugene Scott, she was born ca. 1968, she's a public figure and still on TV every night, and deserves her own page. JoelWest (talk) 08:41, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Just a note, it seems the article could be improved by denoting if the marriages ended in divorce, or death of the spouse. I don't have that information, but perhaps someone else does. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.60.87.126 (talk) 03:32, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

I've added what I could to that section -- I believe the second marriage still needs further research, and if anyone can find better primary sources for this article, that would be appreciated! Scorch999 17:12, 20 December 2006 (UTC) I don't know if the stuff about Melissa Scott is recent, but alleging that someone was an adult film star seems like it needs to cite something, anything. Can this be deleted until it's cited? nangua —Preceding comment was added at 16:37, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

It's sourced in this investigative report[1]; Marie Claire isn't exactly the New York Times, but it's not the checkout-stand tabloid either. The subject certainly should be brought up in this article, as Melissa Scott is a public figure, and really rates an article (the deletion discussion doesn't see m to have turned on notability but the then-missing sources for controversial claims). However, she has said so little about herself there doesn't seem to be enough to make a standalone article about her. DavidOaks (talk) 21:30, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

More sources: Voss, Gretchen. The Preacher’s Unholy Past. Marie Claire[2] Lorette C. Luzajic She Works Hard for the Money. [3] Cindy Malatesta From Barbie Bridges to Melissa Scott aka from Sex to Heaven[4]DavidOaks (talk) 21:52, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

The article now reads that he married Melissa "after his second divorce" but says he was married only one previous time. This needs explaining/correcting. 70.179.92.117 (talk) 03:35, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Linguistic prowess

Nothing in this article describes his deconstructionist approach to bible interpretation or his apparent understanding of Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, etc. His delivery depended greatly upon his understanding of these languages, and his approach to the original texts was certainly a part of his recorded TV programs.

That's because there isn't any understanding. It's mediocre flim flam. He couldn't even speak Spanish much less Greek or Hebrew and neither can she. If you listen carefully to his broadcasts - and hers now, they both use the the same "teaching" technique - basically nonsense presented with pomp and circumstance. They never make a real point, it's loop, after loop, after loop with no close. It is designed to get you lost and frustrated. If you have a low opinion of yourself and buy that they actually know something, then you will come back again and again until you "get" it (and pay them money too). In reality, there is nothing to get. It's just an age old psychological trick that Scott figured out many years ago and passed on to wife. Makes good money, but tends to addle the brain a bit. I liked M. Scott better when she sang - it was more honest. God bless America! Lexlex (talk) 07:52, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

LexLex: please do research before posting such comments. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Truth&consequences (talk • contribs) 19:30, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Deletion review for Melissa Scott (pastor)

Vote at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2007 March 22. Badagnani 06:42, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Children

Scott speaks of having the mumps at age 19 and thus being rendered sterile. It is mentioned in the marriage section that he had no children with his last wife, but I think it's important that this be denoted somewhere in the article; it is uncommon for such a religious man to not have a family of his own; this anecdote might shed light on that (source: Scott's words in Herzog's "God's Angry Man" documentary)

I believe in Neutrality but c'mon!

There is not one mention of the man's controversial nature, and bizarre presentation in this article. This guy was unique to say the least, but this article gives no such indication --Diablorex 05:59, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

ext links

• pastormelissascott.com

refs

I was surprised to see no mention in this article of the unusual nature of his broadcasts. Most religious television broadcasts have segments dedicated to fund raising, but the breaks in his broadcasts were unique.

He would often break with no apparent notice, or warning. The broadcast would cut to what I recall as stock footage of different scenes, including one of a horse ranch (which I later recalled was his personal ranch).

His lecture or sermon style was also unique - new viewers would probably be surprised to see a man writing on a chalkboard or white board covered in greek or hebrew words, often writing over his previous writing again and again.

No mention in the article is made of his outward appearance, often appearing in 'working class' clothes or some other huge contrast from the televangelist norm of suit and tie. He also openly smoked cigars on his show.

Minor edit

Fixed an anomaly with regard to the length of ministry reported in both the introduction and the relevant section. Initially it said that he was a minister for over 50 years, yet the article says he became a minister after his graduation in 1957. As he died in 2005, it means he was a minister for 48 years, or as I edited it to--almost 50 years.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Remarcsd (talk • contribs) 02:54, 10 July 2007)

Complete rewrite necessary

This article needs to be rewritten with sources. And it needs NPOV sources, not just his autobiography or church materials. That really is unacceptable. For those of you who are fans of Dr. Scott, this will result in some negative material in here, necessary for NPOV according to WP principles. Sorry. --Filll 22:47, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

As much as I dislike much about aggressive televangelists

Is this the best way to represent some of this controversial information?--Filll (talk) 16:07, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Church of the Open Door Purchase

The article should delve a bit more deeply into the attempted purchase of the Church of the Open Door. Scott bludgeoned his followers into coughing up millions of dollars to purchase and refurbish the building, culiminating in the first service he held there in which Mayor Bradley was in attendance. After that, attendance dwindled to the point that the television cameras were tightly focused only on the first few rows. When it became obvious that he was going to be unable to raise the money to complete the purchase he seized upon the alleged "cloud on the title" (which in reality was nothing that would ever stand up in court) in a shameless ploy to back out of the deal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.228.198.73 (talk) 17:35, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Scott rescued the COTOD's "Jesus Saves" signs from demolition

The article mentions the "Jesus Saves" signs in reference to the University Cathedral, but it should be told that those signs were historically significant because they hung at the front of the Church Of The Open Door for many decades, during which time many of history's most important fundamentalist preachers were its pastors. Scott may have been over-matched in his attempt to save the Church Of The Open Door, but he did at least save those famous and brash neon signs. It is also an important footnote that Scott was the last one to preach from that historic pulpit. qodesh for the Lord Jesus Christ (talk) 19:40, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Merge discussion

I have started a discussion at Talk:Melissa Scott (pastor), suggesting that that content be merged with this article. Or perhaps, one of this article's watchers can help to find references about her career as Barbie Bridges that will pass WP:RS, in which case I think her article should stand alone. Joefromrandb (talk) 22:41, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

You must have seen the boiler plate at the top of the article about "living persons." Gene Scott is not living. It would not be wise to merge it with a living person, as there are special rules on living persons. (EnochBethany (talk) 06:59, 2 January 2013 (UTC))

This is a stale comment, but as the merge-discussion is live again, I'll comment for any who may be watching. Yes, there are "special rules for living persons", and they apply everywhere. A merge would in no way change anything as far as WP:BLP goes. Joefromrandb (talk) 09:48, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Nomination of Melissa Scott (pastor) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Melissa Scott (pastor) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Melissa Scott (pastor) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. — Brianhe (talk) 19:08, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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