Talk:Taig

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Untitled

Tadhg doesn't mean "Irish". It is, in fact, a common Irish name. It is often used in the same sense as "Joe" (i.e. "the average Joe on the street"). "Tadhg na sráide" translates as "Tadhg of the street". It was from this that "Taig" came from. --Tadhg 02:04, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Williamite War

Do we know for sure that the use of the term Taig as an insult originates in the Williamite War in Ireland or is that an assumption based on the fact that two earliest examples included in the article are from that decade? That's a subtle difference, but I hope all agree it's a important one. If this is an assumption, let's change the wording. --House of Scandal 13:07, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, I don't know for sure, but they are the earliest references that I know if. You don't find the term in contemporary English accounts in the 16th century, where the Gaelic Irish are called, the "mere Irish", the "wild Irish", the "barabarous Irish" "his Majesty's Irish enemies" etc. Nor have I come across it in accounts of of the wars of the 1640s, where the common term of abuse seems to be variations on "murderous Irish Papists". Cromwell, for instance called the defenders of Drogheda in 1649, "barbarous wretches who have imbued their hands in so much innocent blood".

Having said all that, I could not 100% say that "taig" was not used as a term of abuse on street level at these times. But the first time I have come across it is in the 1680s in the run up to the Williamite/Jacobite war. I would suggest that the term comes from a time when the Protestant settler community (which dated back to the early 1600s) had been in Ireland for quite a long time. They had to be quite familiar with the Irish speaking catholic population to know and mock their common first names. On top of that, I would suggest that term is a product of sectarian fear and animosity. While these had been there from the start of the Plantations of Ireland, they were greatly exacerbated by the events of the Irish Rebellion of 1641, where massacres were carried out by both sides. The political crisis of the 1680s was very much shaped by a fear on Protestants part that the newly re-armed Catholics were intending to destroy their community (see Early Modern Ireland 1536-1691. Look also at the full text of Lilliburlero to get an idea of Protestant fears. By the time John Dunton wrote his travel book in 1698, the term was obviously widespread, as he expected his audience in England to know what it meant. Another derogatory term in his book for the Irish Catholics is "Dear Johns", though I don't know where this originated.

So short answer, yes it is an assumption, but it's based on the best information I have to hand.

Jdorney 15:19, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Informative answer, thanks. I reworded slightly to reflect that. I also made sure to imply neither that rebel-types used it first as a self-identifier nor that it was applied to rebel-types first by opponents. It may have happened at the same time for all we know at this point -- certainly the written sources cited here for both are very close in date. Thanks. --House of Scandal 16:19, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nice edit. Incidentally, the Irish Jacobites of the 1690s did not accept that they were rebels. They argued that they were supporting the true (Catholic) king and that it was the Protestants who were the "rebels" and "traitors" for opposing the rightful king in favour of a Protestant imposter - William of Orange.

Jdorney 19:26, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Your point just made is valid and applies to many so-called "rebels" throughout human history. History, as we know, is written by the victors (until debunked).--House of Scandal 11:21, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding your early comments about Protestant fears, I have no doubt they were well-founded. Bloody Mary was known as such for a reason, and Ignatius of Loyola and his fellow didn't scrimpt on the cruelty either. "History has few good guys" (that's my original thought, you may quote me!)--House of Scandal 11:27, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes it was informed by the general Catholic persecution of Protestants in Europe such as the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre in 1577, the events of the Thirty Years War and the more recent revocation of the Edict of Nantes and expulsion of the Huguenots from France in 1685. But in Ireland it had a much more specific context. Basically the Protestant settler community had got c.80-90% of the land in Ireland in the Act of Settlement 1652 at the Catholic's expense. They were frightened that with a Catholic in power, the Catholics would take the lands back and might just take a bloody revenge on the Protestants a la 1641.

Since we're getting philosophical here, I would add that this shows how hatred is usually born out of fear.

Jdorney 13:04, 14 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Use in England

I feel the article fails to make clear that this term is largely restricted to Northern Ireland, and to a lesser extent the West of Scotland, and even there is only used by Protestant bigots. English people would never use this term to refer to an Irish person, even pejoratively (they would say 'bloody Micks' or 'bloody Paddies'). It is a religious sectarian slur, and there is little anti-Catholic bigotry as such in England, where the Irish are generally popular though sometimes patronised. --80.176.142.11 (talk) 15:25, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The usage info has now been clarified. --80.176.142.11 (talk) 12:21, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

John Adams

Saying "Irish teagues" were part of the "motley rabble" on that March night in 1770, the night of the Boston Massacre, indicates the presence, and an impactful one, of Catholic Irish in Boston . This being the case, along with the surnames of the dead at Bunker Hill, bolsters an argument for a Catholic participation in the battle.Bostoneire (talk) 17:06, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think both points you make are likely correct but wouldn't be relevant to discuss in the context of this article. Boston (talk) 14:21, 6 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Patrick Carr was an Irish victim. C. Conner was an Irish witness. 2 of 8 regulars were known to be Irish, 3 more were native Irish surnames. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.239.11.62 (talk) 09:31, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Scots Gaelic

Scots Gaelic 'Taigh' seems to mean house, taigh-òsta means hotel. It could refer to the irish who came to Scotland after the potato famine, or come from Ulster Scots of Gaelic ancestry. Hachimanchu (talk) 17:20, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ther is no g-sound in the Scots Gaelic taigh. It's a bit like the igh in night, light, fight, sight, etc.

The modern word taig comes from the Irish name Tadhg and both ar pronounst the same way. ~Asarlaí 18:08, 28 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Taig graffiti

Quit removing the example of Irish hate throughout England and North Ireland you English genocidal 93.86.229.89 (talk) 09:35, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Change of name

Perhaps relevant: In 1926, Denis Teague, of No. 1 Mountcollyer Avenue, Belfast, changed his surname to Montague.^[1]

References

^ "No. 282". The Belfast Gazette. 19 November 1926. p. 641.

jnestorius^(talk) 17:12, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "No. 282". The Belfast Gazette. 19 November 1926. p. 641.

[1]